Land Flowing With Milk and Honey

[dani'el]

Deuteronomy 11:9 and that you may live long in the land that the Lord swore to your fathers to give to them and to their offspring, a land flowing with milk and honey.

What does “a land flowing with milk and honey” mean to you? What are your thoughts on this new land they were going to?

 

[HARK!]

I hadn't looked at it any deeper than as a land where YHWH makes provision for his people.

 

[dani'el]

I hadn't looked at it any deeper than as a land where YHWH makes provision for his people.

Most of us don't. That's why I asked- maybe we should.

My favorit thing when reading scripture is context, and the first contextual consideration of course is the passage in which the verse appears. And the entire chapter here is both interesting and gives a lot of insight. But so do other views, so before I say anything I'd like to get other views.

I agree with you, by the way. But what is the deeper meaning in your statement? After reading it a couple of things came to mind- God not only provided for them, He protected them. And it touches on trust, as when in the shalosh regalim they went up to Yerushalayim He protected them and their land. Moreover He brought the rains in their seasons so the Hebrews had a good crop and pasture to sustain them. But what are the implications of all that?

Each answer raises more questions, and each person may ask different questions, thus gaining different insights. What questions (now you are thinking about it) would you ask?

 

[daq]

Deuteronomy 11:9 and that you may live long in the land that the Lord swore to your fathers to give to them and to their offspring, a land flowing with milk and honey.

What does “a land flowing with milk and honey” mean to you? What are your thoughts on this new land they were going to?

Most of us don't. That's why I asked- maybe we should.

My favorit thing when reading scripture is context, and the first contextual consideration of course is the passage in which the verse appears. And the entire chapter here is both interesting and gives a lot of insight. But so do other views, so before I say anything I'd like to get other views.

I agree with you, by the way. But what is the deeper meaning in your statement? After reading it a couple of things came to mind- God not only provided for them, He protected them. And it touches on trust, as when in the shalosh regalim they went up to Yerushalayim He protected them and their land. Moreover He brought the rains in their seasons so the Hebrews had a good crop and pasture to sustain them. But what are the implications of all that?

Each answer raises more questions, and each person may ask different questions, thus gaining different insights. What questions (now you are thinking about it) would you ask?

Shalom Dani'el, welcome aboard.

Judging from the context surrounding what you have quoted it appears to be speaking of supernal things. What first comes to mind, in regards to your question, would be the "milk of the Word", and honey, possibly related to Elim, (tamarim, date palms, honey made from dates or date syrup), but perhaps in a spiritual or supernal way of thinking, which of course would be open to discussion and-or debate.

 

[dani'el]

Shalom Dani'el, welcome aboard.

Judging from the context surrounding what you have quoted it appears to be speaking of supernal things. What first comes to mind, in regards to your question, would be the "milk of the Word", and honey, possibly related to Elim, (tamarim, date palms, honey made from dates or date syrup), but perhaps in a spiritual or supernal way of thinking, which of course would be open to discussion and-or debate.

No debate, just discussion. It's the infinite Word of God, and so can have more than one meaning or way of looking at it. And you are right about the date syrup, I believe. The dates of the Dead Sea region and south to Elat were (and are still) world famous. When squeezed you get a thick syrup that is highly prized.

The milk of the Word- I never really thought of it like that, but it is interesting. Ha'eretz (the Land (of Israel)) is small and mostly mountainous. Until Melech Dovid (King David) conquered the cities in the lowlands they had no excess food to sell nor a lot of industry to trade. And they had no navigable rivers to transport goods anyhow. They were an agrarian society for the most part, living from year to year, harvest to harvest. So they had no great armies to march out and conquer. God did not mean them to be a superpower or conquering nation. But if they followed His instructions and especially His commandments they would influence the caravans that had to pass through ha'eretz Yisro'el. They would in effect influence the world. And one would think after 40 years wandering and sitting around watching sand drift they would be past the milk stage in their Torah studies. But what they would be giving to any caravaner who asked would be the milk, the basic, easy understanding. So I can see milk as relating to the Word.

 

[daq]

No debate, just discussion. It's the infinite Word of God, and so can have more than one meaning or way of looking at it. And you are right about the date syrup, I believe. The dates of the Dead Sea region and south to Elat were (and are still) world famous. When squeezed you get a thick syrup that is highly prized.

The milk of the Word- I never really thought of it like that, but it is interesting. Ha'eretz (the Land (of Israel)) is small and mostly mountainous. Until Melech Dovid (King David) conquered the cities in the lowlands they had no excess food to sell nor a lot of industry to trade. And they had no navigable rivers to transport goods anyhow. They were an agrarian society for the most part, living from year to year, harvest to harvest. So they had no great armies to march out and conquer. God did not mean them to be a superpower or conquering nation. But if they followed His instructions and especially His commandments they would influence the caravans that had to pass through ha'eretz Yisro'el. They would in effect influence the world. And one would think after 40 years wandering and sitting around watching sand drift they would be past the milk stage in their Torah studies. But what they would be giving to any caravaner who asked would be the milk, the basic, easy understanding. So I can see milk as relating to the Word.

From the background context, Devarim 11:21, how do you read the following statement? I will post different renderings as an example for what I am asking.

1) as the days of the heavens over the earth
2) as the days of the heavens above the earth
3) as the days of the heavens on the earth
4) as the days of the heavens upon the earth

Curious which of the above statements you tend toward? or if you read it differently than any of these? The first two do not mean the same thing as the last two.

Can our days be multiplied as the days of the heavens upon the earth? If this be true then it is doubtful that this occurs in the natural and physical just because of the physical land wherein we reside.

What if this speaks of the kingdom of the heavens? (Matthew 8:11). Is it possible in this life to sit down with father Abraham, and Yitzhak, and Yakob, and all the Prophets, (which would include Mosheh), in the kingdom of Elohim? (Luke 13:28-29).

Deuteronomy 11:18-21.

 

[dani'el]

From the background context, Devarim 11:21, how do you read the following statement? I will post different renderings as an example for what I am asking.

1) as the days of the heavens over the earth
2) as the days of the heavens above the earth
3) as the days of the heavens on the earth
4) as the days of the heavens upon the earth

Curious which of the above statements you tend toward? or if you read it differently than any of these? The first two do not mean the same thing as the last two.

Deuteronomy 11:21 ESV that your days and the days of your children may be multiplied in the land that the Lord swore to your fathers to give them, as long as the heavens are above the earth.
land- H127 אֲדָמָה ‘ădâmâh- soil (from its general redness): - country, earth, ground, husband [-man] (-ry), land.
earth- H776 אֶרֶץ ‘erets From an unused root probably meaning to be firm; the earth (at large, or partitively a land): - X common, country, earth, field, ground, land, X nations, way, + wilderness, world.
above- H5921 עַל ‛al Properly the same as [H5920- properly the top; specifically the Highest (that is, God); also (adverbially) aloft, to Jehovah: - above, high, most High.] used as a preposition (in the singular or plural, often with prefix, or as conjugation with a particle following); above, over, upon, or against (yet always in this last relation with a downward aspect) in a great variety of applications: - above, according to (-ly), after, (as) against, among, and, as, at, because of, beside (the rest of), between, beyond the time, both and, by (reason of), had the charge of, concerning for, in (that), (forth, out) of, (from) (off), (up-) on, over, than, through (-out), to, touching, with.

Eretz can mean either the land of Yisroel, another ‘land,’ land as opposed to sea, the entire earth … . But interesting here instead of eretz the verse first uses adamah, which specifically means earth as in soil: dirt. So contextually, and given the relation to H5920 it more likely (my opinion) would be translated as the ESV does, “as long as the heavens are above the earth.”

However none of the options can be ruled out completely, and there may be good lessons to be learned from each translation.


Can our days be multiplied as the days of the heavens upon the earth? If this be true then it is doubtful that this occurs in the natural and physical just because of the physical land wherein we reside.

What if this speaks of the kingdom of the heavens? (Matthew 8:11). Is it possible in this life to sit down with father Abraham, and Yitzhak, and Yakob, and all the Prophets, (which would include Mosheh), in the kingdom of Elohim? (Luke 13:28-29).

Matthew 8:11 I tell you, many will come from east and west and recline at table with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven,
Luke 13:28-29 In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God but you yourselves cast out. And people will come from east and west, and from north and south, and recline at table in the kingdom of God.

These things will occur at the end of days, not in our present lifetimes. But if I read Revelation right, the Kingdom of Heaven will come to earth as well, and God will reign here as well as in the heavens.

“As long as the heavens are above the earth” makes the most sense to me though, as in the end (the kingdom of) heaven will come down to earth.
Revelation 21:2-3 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling place [tabernacle] of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God.

 

[daq]

@dani'el, I cannot quote your response because your comments were accidentally inserted into my quotes. But that's okay, I saw and read what you posted, and I will just say here that I understand adamah to be the soil of the heart, as Adam was formed of dust from the adamah, and this teaching, (once a person realizes it from the Testimony of the Master, such as in the parable of the sower), comes through in many places in both the Torah and the Prophets.

The first example is Cain, who is banished from the adamah, and sent to the wander in the eretz, in Eretz Nod, (land of wandering). The adamah is inward, the eretz is outward, a body-temple analogy that runs throughout the whole of the scripture.

 

[dani'el]

@dani'el, I cannot quote your response because your comments were accidentally inserted into my quotes. But that's okay, I saw and read what you posted, and I will just say here that I understand adamah to be the soil of the heart, as Adam was formed of dust from the adamah, and this teaching, (once a person realizes it from the Testimony of the Master, such as in the parable of the sower), comes through in many places in both the Torah and the Prophets.

The first example is Cain, who is banished from the adamah, and sent to the wander in the eretz, in Eretz Nod, (land of wandering). The adamah is inward, the eretz is outward, a body-temple analogy that runs throughout the whole of the scripture.

A very good analysis, and I think it will hold true in many cases. However 'eretz' may also look inward, depending on context. For example, when the Hebrews entered the land they conquered the hill country with some notable exceptions (like Yerushalayim). They had to farm the smaller valleys or pasture their sheep and goats on open range. Consequently they only produced enough to sustain themselves year to year. Most depended on cisterns for water, so water usage had to be managed as well. If they were lucky they had a well, but water tables can drop, especially with heavy usage. So only a really good water table would support a town or city. Few supported irrigation on a large scale. If they were really lucky they had a spring of cool, fresh, plentiful water. But both the water sources and the crops were dependent on God to send the rains in season:
Leviticus 26:4 then I will give you your rains in their season, and the land shall yield its increase, and the trees of the field shall yield their fruit.

Without going into a lot of detail on their agricultural and animal husbandry methods, the rains had to come in the right strength and quantity and at the right times in order to work. So they were dependent on God for their sustenance. They were also a small nation, fragmented by tribal loyalties and semi isolated by terrain. So they had no great armies, no armories weapons and war machines. However they were unified by Torah, and when needed Judges arose to lead them against enemies.

Their land was a choke point for all the trade routes between Mesopotamia and Egypt, and between the Mediterranean and the Red and Arabian Seas. So the world essentially passed through ha'eretz Yisroel continually. This made ha'eretz a very desireable piece of real estate. But it was protected by their God, even when all the men went up to Yerushalayim 3 times each year. The traders (the goyim, the pagans/ nations) would see this. They would also see the way the Hebrews conducted themselves, how they treated others and looked after the less fortunate. They saw a cultural difference that was a better way to live. This was in effect a type of living Torah. So the people of Eretz Yisroel were not to be a nation of great conquerers. However they were a goyim who influenced the world!

In this way ha'eretz Yisroel could be said to be the "heart of the world." Goods were distributed to the world through ha'eretz. And as His people modeling His Torah, His protection, and His sustaining mercy and thus influencing the world it could be said they gave (or at least offered) life to the world. Sadly they did not always model Torah, and their light was removed for a time, their life giving blood hemorrhaged onto the adamah of another eretz.

Note this in no way invalidates what you said. Just another way to look at it.