Labeling harmless actions/things/activities as immoral.

[2PhiloVoid]

I agree.

The problem is when we fill in the blanks by “woundering” as opposed to walking up to the woman and asking her why she has decided to go topless in a country in which such an activity breaks social norms? I am here talking to you all because I am tired of my bias filling in the blanks in terms of what Christians are and why they do the things that they do. My bias has driven my anger against Christianity for far too long and I no longer wish to be a slave to my bias.

...it's definitely commendable that you're here to challenge your own bias.

A good band that I like. How has listening to Pretty Reckless harmed me? If you cannot come up with how it has harmed me then how can we say the music is harmful? At best we can say that some with weaker character may give into their baser nature and act out in an negative way, but that hardly represents all who listen to said band. Music does not cause aberrant behavior, aberrant psychology causes aberrant behavior.

Just "listening" passively to a song from a band isn't what I'm concerned about, and if that's all you're doing when engaging 'The Pretty Reckless,' then I imagine you're no more influenced by their music than I am when I hear a song like, "Watch the Children Pray," "Man in the Box," "Going to Hell," or "Deep Six."

But, can you say the same for those moments when you actually watch the videos that accompany the music or contemplate the actual lyrics? If you don't do either of these latter activities in a concerted fashion, then I'll agree with you that a lot of music doesn't directly affect a person at all times.

The line should be drawn within the person and not the music. If one feels sinful urges when listening to Metal then perhaps it is best for those persons to avoid the genre altogether.

... then there's also the issue of our having spent money to support some band that does produce some songs that have a negative spiritual influence upon other individuals around us.

 

[Tinker Grey]

It is enough that thousands of years of Jewish scholars consider it so (with Samuel that is)

As I said, it's a reasonable inference; but, I would not say that the Bible says so.

 

[Moral Orel]

The fact that the worlds 7+ billion people cannot agree on the subject speaks to the subjectivity of what constitutes harm.

You're conflating "what is harm" with "what leads to harm". People don't disagree about what constitutes harm, by and large, they do disagree about what leads to harm, or whether causing harm is moral, etc.

The pain of being burnt is harm; people agree on that.

Burning witches at the stake causes the harm of being burnt; people agree on that. What people disagree about is whether we ought to be doing that or not.

 

[Robert65]

I think that it's more likely a combination of the music and aberrant psychology...however I do respect your POV on this subject. Thank you for engaging with me with an interesting discussion.

The pleasure has been mine. Thank you.

 

[Robert65]

...it's definitely commendable that you're here to challenge your own bias.

I appreciate that.

Just "listening" passively to a song from a band isn't what I'm concerned about, and if that's all you're doing when engaging 'The Pretty Reckless,' then I imagine you're no more influenced by their music than I am when I hear a song like, "Watch the Children Pray," "Man in the Box," "Going to Hell," or "Deep Six."

But, can you say the same for those moments when you actually watch the videos that accompany the music or contemplate the actual lyrics? If you don't do either of these latter activities in a concerted fashion, then I'll agree with you that a lot of music doesn't directly affect a person at all times.

I mostly watch music videos and rarely just listen to music. None the less the music videos do not cause me any harm nor cause me to act out in an immoral way. I play violent video games also yet I have never been a violent man. Playing Red Dead Redemption 2 now where I play as a scoundrel in the wild west. So far the game has not caused me to do a single immoral thing nor have any of the violent video games I have ever played. Then again I am not a Christian and do not adhere to the same standards that some Christians do.

... then there's also the issue of our having spent money to support some band that does produce some songs that have a negative spiritual influence upon other individuals around us.

Those most susceptible to negative influences are the insecure and/or rudderless who have yet to found their moral anchor. I do however get where you are coming from and cannot completely disagree with your argument. At some level music can influence the rudderless and said influence can be negative. As I am not rudderless perhaps that insulates me from the negative influence of secular music.

 

[Robert65]

People don't disagree about what constitutes harm, by and large

Certainly not been my experience. What constitutes harm to you?

 

[Moral Orel]

Certainly not been my experience. What constitutes harm to you?

Where's the rest of my post you're quoting here? Can you explain why the stuff you snipped doesn't answer this question?

 

[Robert65]

Where's the rest of my post you're quoting here? Can you explain why the stuff you snipped doesn't answer this question?

You gave examples of harm. You never told me what constitutes harm. I see harm as subjective ergo there is no universally agreed answer to the question of what constitutes harm.

 

[MariaJLM]

Why does Christianity label harmless action/things/activities as immoral? Examples:Heavy Metal, Dungeons & Dragons, long hair on men, braless women, etc. Secondary question: What is the boundary that separates action from immoral action? If you cannot answer question 2 then how can you know right from wrong in terms of morality?

Note. If you claim something is immoral/wrong/bad, please say why with as much detail as possible.

Simple answer: they're not immoral. The only one I could argue is at least somewhat immoral is some heavy metal. There are subgenres of it that are openly Satanic in their lyrical content(usually Black Metal, hence the name). However, there's metal that is perfectly appropriate for Christians. Heck, there's even Christian metal bands. Check out the band "Theocracy" if you want an example of clean Christian metal.

 

[Moral Orel]

You gave examples of harm. You never told me what constitutes harm. I see harm as subjective ergo there is no universally agreed answer to the question of what constitutes harm.

To be burnt is not to be harmed? That's just a matter of opinion?

 

[Robert65]

Simple answer: they're not immoral. The only one I could argue is at least somewhat immoral is some heavy metal. There are subgenres of it that are openly Satanic in their lyrical content(usually Black Metal, hence the name). However, there's metal that is perfectly appropriate for Christians. Heck, there's even Christian metal bands. Check out the band "Theocracy" if you want an example of clean Christian metal.

Theocracy. Just watch a vid of theirs. Reminds me of melodic Metal from the 80's. Thanks for the tip.

 

[Robert65]

To be burnt is not to be harmed? That's just a matter of opinion?

Being burnt is an example of harm, it is not what constitutes harm. I would say what constitutes harm is an action that causes lasting or permanent physical and/or psychological injury or damage. By that definition of harm none of the examples in the OP cause harm in and of themselves.