Hi Trust,
Being forced to co-exist for so long was not fruitful for anybody.
I can understand that. Granted, I wasn't a part of this forum during the much of the "combined" days, but I saw enough heartache to realize what you're saying is very true. A lot of good people got hurt (in fact most, I think). Was it completely fruitless? I don't know. What counts now is going to be the future, and I believe that there is a very real chance at peace, now.
I think they have forgotten who asked for the split this time,
Maybe they have forgotten. They certainly supported the split, for the most part. There were a couple of votes that we'll never know the origin of. On the whole, Trust, I believe that you are quite correct that most of them supported the split.
But, truth be told, I would remiss to not offer myself up for blame in this split. I was the one who who started the poll in WWMC. Granted, that poll never did do what it was intended to do, which was to give any adventist wishing to discuss subjects that deviated from the Statement of Faith, and do so in an area where they could still enact a modest set of exclusionary rules for themselves. -edit I meant in the WWMC, that never happened.
The poll may have had an overall effect towards the forum split (I think it did). It may not have (which I doubt). So, the Progs did what they could for a split, and I like to think that I have helped them.
So, there's probably good reason to blame me just as much as anybody else for what happened. I admit to using "overly sensational" language when I wrote that poll. I realize that my calling the Progs "persecuted" was a drastic overstatement, and had negative repercussions by showing the Trads in a bad light.
I'd like to apologize to each and every one of you who was hurt by my characterizations. I'm truly sorry that anyone was hurt by my actions.
so now the accusation is that we're hiding.
Perhaps. Some may say that you've all wrapped yourselves in a legal net of safety to "hide." What anybody else thinks is not your problem. The SDAs have often found themselves in a similar position throughout history. Other people have quite a lot to say that has been quite negative. Saying that you're "hiding" is among those things.
But, CF allows all communities the right to protect themselves. It is written as to not be argued against. Your rights are there for a reason, and I have defended your rights in this regard.
If by "hiding" you have found safe haven for your discussions, then I applaud you. You have exercised your rights, and done so in a polite and responsible manner, on the whole. Given the severity of your past situation, I think you all did quite well.
Fine, I'll take that, because it doesn't change the fact that some people aren't very good at hiding their anger when you take their punching bags away.
I speak specifically at your restraint in the arena of cross-forum baiting. There's an announcement stickied at the top of the page about this, and it's there for a reason. The staff was starting to see a few shots fired across the boundaries of the forums, and we wanted it to stop.
Given the situation, I admit that this practice of CFB could have escalated into a real war. It did not. There were a few instances, but on the whole, I respect each and every one of the Trads for showing restraint.
I think the whole reason we had to disallow the "type" of debating they brought here is getting blamed on the wrong people too, but I'll live with that also.
The reason you altered your FSGs was well within your rights, and I will continue to support and defend your rights. You have not been told this, but the instigator that got D+D closed was very possibly me, as it was me that initiated the inspection of that forum. I did so because I saw that very few people were reading the FSGs, and violations were rampant. To me, the name of the forum was the problem. I pointed this out to upper staff as a possible cause of so many reports. To me, the average member would see "Debate" in the forum's name and go there to do just that.
I believe the wording I used was "report-mill."
While I was initiating a discussion among staff to find the best way to approach your community with the suggestion of altering the name of the forum, your old FSGs were found to be inadequate, and your forum was closed while new FSGs were decided upon.
I am violating my contract with CF to not disclose staff actions. I do so knowingly and willingly because you all deserve to know who initiated the closing of D+D.
In fact, when I said you folks were "wrong" about who to blame in the instances that forced your forum to change, I did so because in most of those cases, it should have been me you were blaming, and not the Progs. I did so in a selfish and harsh manner. I have defended my actions by saying that I was "protecting the innocent." That was partly true, but really I was protecting the truly guilty, and that was because I was guilty. I chose a very poor manner to do this, and I hurt you all with my words. I apologize to you all. I'm truly sorry.
The end result is some peace, and it's nice to finally have that!
Yes, Trust. Now you have peace. At this moment, the current number of active reports made against members in the combined Adventist forums is Zero. This, I believe, is unprecedented. It is truly peace.
You really have yourselves to thank for the peace, as you have been quite focused during the processes that happened to around you. There were some behind-the-scenes discussions that may never know about. There were a lot of feathers ruffled.
I think you folks are well on your way to being able to finally enjoy your space. The progs have been "well trained" to understand your forum's rules, and your right to have those rules.
I hopefully had some part in that as well.
You see, I'm not against you. I'm working hard (mostly behind the scenes) to get some real changes made in a forum that was once thought to be a lost cause. By being assigned here, I was essentially "thrown to the wolves." I say that with no disrespect for the upper staff who recommended your area, nor to you and your family, but as a statement of fact. This forum was a war zone, and there have been many casualties along the way.
I didn't see my job as just "working the reports" and handing out infractions until there was nobody left. Granted, I have infracted some of the folks here, but no more than I have done so with the Progs.
I saw my job as taking active steps to be able to attain peace in this forum. I had to play some real hardball at times. Your staff found themselves at odds more than once. In the end, we pulled together and formed a unified front that still stands. I may have initiated some of the actions, but your staff has done an incredible amount of work behind the scenes. We have worked through our own problems to provide you with the best moderation that we are capable of. I cannot take credit for the peace that you now enjoy. You have gotten peace by being peaceful, and your staff has worked to provide you with some safety, to help ensure that your peace will continue to be manageable.
Along the way, I made a few enemies. I've said some things that I regret. I am truly sorry to those I've hurt along the path.
If given another chance, I'd choose my words far more carefully, to avoid hurting anyone. But, I'd do many of the same things that I did do. Things that did not make many members (or staff) happy.
My goal has always been peace for the SDAs. Nobody thought it was possible, but Zero reports? You can't argue with cold hard facts.
You now have peace. You have yourselves to thank, and the other members of your staff who kept their cool while I was doing little other than stirring up trouble.
I am going to stay on as a moderator for your forum and continue to protect and insure the peace (until I get booted out). I have never been one to back down from anything. I know that you folks don't like me because I have said some venomous words, and that I stir up trouble. I can't blame you.
But, I've learned a lot about showing respect, and I'm still learning. Hopefully, given time, I may be able to prove that my efforts are beneficial for your forum.
I'll try to be nicer.
In the end though, I'm not trying to win a popularity contest. I'm trying to fix that which needs fixing, and protect the rights of our members with every tactic I can muster.
Thanks Dean, it means a lot to me.
