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What doubts would those be?
I stated I would like your best piece of evidence to at least demonstrate His specific existence. Were you actually going to offer as such? Or, instead assert half-threatening quotes, eluding to ' final judgement', to scare me into believing, or else....
All that awaits mankind is fiery and final judgment after death.
Why worry about that now - (you think?) just go and do as you like..... maybe you have a few more days.... maybe a few more years..... worrying about it will not do any good, and won't make a difference in your judgment later (or today?) .
Do you believe there is a deity tho?My doubt is the existence of such a claimed being, since I have not received any needed evidence to demonstrate the existence of such a specific entity.
It's almost as if you are not reading my responses. So let me re-state it in a different way...
Lets just say you are right, but I don't believe you. What evidence are you going to provide, to convince me. Because, at this point, it's really no different than a Muslim accusing you of being an infidel, and threatening you.
I appreciate the response. I wanted to emphasize this question before it could possibly lead to a rabbit trail.
My point is that if (I) don't even possess the 'subjective knowledge, then I will not believe it exists.
Please provide your best piece of evidence for His specific existence
You state this, and go on to argue things arising from it, as if you believe it to be true. Do you believe God exists or not? If not, then Satan and all your following reasoning is non-sequitor. If you do believe in God, what is the problem?Satan had knowledge of God, and chose to rebel.
The point of the moral argument is that the implication is that man is more than matter. So it's a basis to seek further for that which is spiritual in origin, which I go on to consider.First, do you admit the 'moral argument' lays no bearing or basis to demonstrate Yahweh, in any capacity? If so, then I will move on to the rest.
But if not, then maybe we need to address why you feel the 'moral argument' is so compelling, and necessary at all, in establishing Yahweh specifically, in any capacity.
In response to your link:
The moral argument does not prove a god/gods.
The theist performs 'good' acts based upon assumed cosmic judgment, which is not demonstrably proven to any specific God.
The non-believer performs 'good' acts based upon consequences, empathy, sense of community, cooperation, culture, upbringing, homeostasis, and fear of loneliness, all which are actually demonstrably proven attributes which exist.
The moral argument ends exactly where it started. Meaning, the moral argument is there, in an attempt to prove god, but is a circular argument. Please watch the following 4 minute video, which seems to explain it best:
I would comment on the rest of your link. However, it's enough to first realize the moral argument gets us NO closer to Yahweh.
Seeking clarity...
In one form of the "moral argument" the statement is made:
1. If God does not exist, there is no objective moral right or wrong.
Could someone please explain the thinking/reasoning behind this postulate?
As stated the statement is correct. Technically. If we were to ignore what we know is the intent behind the statement.
The reality is that morality cannot be objective no matter what, God or no God.
And if morality actually was objective, then the objectivity of morality would not be contingent upon God by definition. Objective things cannot be subject to something else because otherwise they'd be subjective.
Not only has God done a lot of things that would be considered overwhelmingly evil had they been done by a person (already enough for us to conclude either that morality is subjective or that God is objectively evil), but the "objective morality" argument is so stupid it simply can't even get off the ground. So it really blows my mind every time a Christian goes to morality. I'd say try to defend the resurrection, and everything else will fall in place. Prove the resurrection and atheists have to swallow the rest of the religion no matter how bitter it is.
Exactly. You cannot until God draws you.
I met him. Or rather He met me. In a very specific traumatic incident. He gave me a promise and he gave me knowledge that was contrary to all current evidence of events, and which I had no possibility of acquiring on my own; and he turned total fear into total calm, peace and reassurance. The knowledge He gave me turned out to be true. The promise He gave, that I understood to apply to the immediate future, has turned out to be true for the 55 years since the event.
For me, that meeting was/is worth more as evidence, than all the amazing facts and figures, natural wonders that I saw and continue to see around me.
You state this, and go on to argue things arising from it, as if you believe it to be true.
Do you believe God exists or not? If not, then Satan and all your following reasoning is non-sequitor. If you do believe in God, what is the problem?
Seeking clarity...
In one form of the "moral argument" the statement is made:
1. If God does not exist, there is no objective moral right or wrong.
Could someone please explain the thinking/reasoning behind this postulate?
The point of the moral argument is that the implication is that man is more than matter. So it's a basis to seek further for that which is spiritual in origin, which I go on to consider.
The thing about seeking God is that you won't find him if you don't seek with all your heart. "You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart." Jer 29:13 If a person is seeking the negative, that is seeking to disprove God, they will never find him.
I'm with you, no reason to go down a rabbit hole.My point was rather what type of evidence do you personally want/need to believe something? From what you said, perhaps you could be describe as a "Materialist"? (No not like Madonna's girl) but rather as defined by Webster:
"A belief that physical matter is the only or fundamental reality and that all being and processes and phenomena can be explained as manifestations or results of matter (see 1 matter 2)also scientific materialism."
If this describes you (and I'm not saying it does) then what you may need is a physical manifestation that proves God? If that is the case, what are you truly asking of us? We can not make God give you that evidence. My only suggestion would be to consider that there may be limitations in the material approach to reality.
Personally I feel you are sincere in seeking and will eventually get the answers you are looking for, but maybe not from CF. Finally hopefully you won't take offense when I say God bless you and pray that you find what you seek.
Do you believe there is a deity tho?
My point eludes to above. God should have NO problem presenting 'proof' to everyone that HE exists. It should be no more elusive than 'knowing' the sun exists.
Would the evidence I received, as described in post #27 convince you, if it happened to you? Or what is the likelihood that you would analyze it away as psychosomatic?
Do you trust your own senses?
Isn't Jesus reported to have said something along the lines that "even if a man is resurrected, such an event wouldn't be really enough to convert a person"? Yeah, I'm thinking that the inherent epistemology, actually most of the epistemological indices that are strewn throughout the Bible, including those of Jesus, deny your assertion that proving the Resurrection would be more than sufficient to gain the hearts of an otherwise morally marred humanity (a.k.a. a sinful world).
In fact, one of the churches I was in in the past seemed to be lead by persons who wanted to curtail the ways in which a person might decide to analyze and think about the nature of the bible and various social issues which that Church had to deal with. And I told them, "Y'know, it seems that there are only certain questions that are allowed to be asked here, and to me, that doesn't bode well for getting to the truth." Of course, not everyone was pleased with the comments that I made while I was there.
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