Knowing Jesus

[Vanellus]

Comparing two gospel passages:

Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves.
from John 14

and

All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.
Mt 11:27

Admittedly these are slightly different Greek words but the word used in Mt 11:27 is also used here at the end of Mt 14 (as "recognized").
When they had crossed over, they landed at Gennesaret. 35And when the men of that place recognized Jesus, they sent word to all the surrounding country. People brought all their sick to him 36and begged him to let the sick just touch the edge of his cloak, and all who touched it were healed.

I think the difficult passage here is Mt 11:27 - especially the first part. No one knowing the Father except the Son and those whom the Son chooses to reveal the Father, makes sense. But Jesus is the Word of God. He came to us so that we would know better what God is like (other reasons as well of course). The whole idea is we get to know Jesus and so get to know the Father.

Now, again the same word can be used in different ways so maybe this is "really knows as the Father can know the Son". Is that what is going on here (in Mt 11:27)?

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Comparing two gospel passages:

Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves.
from John 14

and

All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.
Mt 11:27

Admittedly these are slightly different Greek words but the word used in Mt 11:27 is also used here at the end of Mt 14 (as "recognized").
When they had crossed over, they landed at Gennesaret. 35And when the men of that place recognized Jesus, they sent word to all the surrounding country. People brought all their sick to him 36and begged him to let the sick just touch the edge of his cloak, and all who touched it were healed.

I think the difficult passage here is MT 11:27 - especially the first part. No one knowing the Father except the Son and those whom the Son chooses to reveal the Father, makes sense. But Jesus is the Word of God. He came to us so that we would know better what God is like (other reasons as well of course). The whole idea is we get to know Jesus and so get to know the Father.

Now, again the same word can be used in different ways so maybe this is "really knows as the Father can know the Son". Is that what is going on here (in Mt 11:27)?

This was before the Holy Spirit came to dwell in the beliver. His indwelling makes it possible for the seamless relationship to occur between God and man.
Blessings

 

[Soyeong]

Comparing two gospel passages:

Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves.
from John 14

and

All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.
Mt 11:27

Admittedly these are slightly different Greek words but the word used in Mt 11:27 is also used here at the end of Mt 14 (as "recognized").
When they had crossed over, they landed at Gennesaret. 35And when the men of that place recognized Jesus, they sent word to all the surrounding country. People brought all their sick to him 36and begged him to let the sick just touch the edge of his cloak, and all who touched it were healed.

I think the difficult passage here is MT 11:27 - especially the first part. No one knowing the Father except the Son and those whom the Son chooses to reveal the Father, makes sense. But Jesus is the Word of God. He came to us so that we would know better what God is like (other reasons as well of course). The whole idea is we get to know Jesus and so get to know the Father.

Now, again the same word can be used in different ways so maybe this is "really knows as the Father can know the Son". Is that what is going on here (in Mt 11:27)?

The Hebrew word "yada" refers to knowledge that is gained by experience or relationship, such as in Genesis 4:1, where Adam knew Eve, she conceived, and gave birth to Cain. God's nature is truth and the way to know God/have a relationship with Him is through delighting in experiencing aspects of His nature by walking in His way in obedience to His law, and the reason why the Son is the way to see and know the Father is because the Son is the image of the invisible God (Colossians 1:15) and exact image of God's nature (Hebrews 1:3), which he expressed through living in sinless obedience to God's law. The Bible often uses the same terms to describe the nature of God as it does to describe the nature of God's law, such as with it being holy, righteous, and good (Romans 7:12), or with justice, mercy, and faithfulness being weightier matters of the law (Matthew 23:23), and it could not accurately be described as such if it were not God's instructions for how to testify about those aspects of His nature. Furthermore, God's way is the way in which He expresses aspects of His nature, such as righteousness and justice (Genesis 18:19) and there are many verses that describe God's law as being instructions for how to walk in God's way, such as Deuteronomy 10:12-13, Isaiah 2:2-3, 1 Kings 2:1-3, Joshua 22:5, Psalms 103:7, Psalms 119:1-3, and many others.

In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him His way that he might know Him and Israel too. In Jeremiah 9:3 and 9:6, they did not know God and refused to know Him because in 9:13, they had forsaken God's law, while in 9:24, those who know God know that He delights in practicing steadfast love, justice, and righteousness in all of the earth, so delighting in experiencing these aspects of God's nature through our obedience to His law is the way to know Him, and the Son. In 1 John 2:4, those who say that they know Jesus, but don't obey his commandments are liars, and the truth is not in them, in 1 John 3:4-6, those who continue to practice sin in transgression of God's law have neither seen nor known him, and in Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so knowing God and Jesus is the goal of the law (Romans 10:2-4), which is eternal life (John 17:3).

Psalms 119:142, God's law is truth, in Psalms 119:160, the sum of God's word is truth, in John 1:14 the word of God became flesh and dwelt among us, and in Deuteronomy 32:47, God's law is our very life, so he is Gods law, the way, the truth, and the life made flesh, and the way to see and know the Father, and we don't need to appeal to John 14:6-11 and Matthew 11:27 in order to know that.

 

[Vanellus]

This was before the Holy Spirit came to dwell in the beliver. His indwelling makes it possible for the seamless relationship to occur between God and man.
Blessings

This doesn't prevent Jesus revealing the Father to the disciples even though it was before the Holy Spirit came to well in them as you write above.

 

[Vanellus]

The Hebrew word "yada" refers to knowledge that is gained by experience or relationship, such as in Genesis 4:1, where Adam knew Eve, she conceived, and gave birth to Cain. God's nature is truth and the way to know God/have a relationship with Him is through delighting in experiencing aspects of His nature by walking in His way in obedience to His law, and the reason why the Son is the way to see and know the Father is because the Son is the image of the invisible God (Colossians 1:15) and exact image of God's nature (Hebrews 1:3), which he expressed through living in sinless obedience to God's law. The Bible often uses the same terms to describe the nature of God as it does to describe the nature of God's law, such as with it being holy, righteous, and good (Romans 7:12), or with justice, mercy, and faithfulness being weightier matters of the law (Matthew 23:23), and it could not accurately be described as such if it were not God's instructions for how to testify about those aspects of His nature. Furthermore, God's way is the way in which He expresses aspects of His nature, such as righteousness and justice (Genesis 18:19) and there are many verses that describe God's law as being instructions for how to walk in God's way, such as Deuteronomy 10:12-13, Isaiah 2:2-3, 1 Kings 2:1-3, Joshua 22:5, Psalms 103:7, Psalms 119:1-3, and many others.

In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him His way that he might know Him and Israel too. In Jeremiah 9:3 and 9:6, they did not know God and refused to know Him because in 9:13, they had forsaken God's law, while in 9:24, those who know God know that He delights in practicing steadfast love, justice, and righteousness in all of the earth, so delighting in experiencing these aspects of God's nature through our obedience to His law is the way to know Him, and the Son. In 1 John 2:4, those who say that they know Jesus, but don't obey his commandments are liars, and the truth is not in them, in 1 John 3:4-6, those who continue to practice sin in transgression of God's law have neither seen nor known him, and in Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so knowing God and Jesus is the goal of the law (Romans 10:2-4), which is eternal life (John 17:3).

Psalms 119:142, God's law is truth, in Psalms 119:160, the sum of God's word is truth, in John 1:14 the word of God became flesh and dwelt among us, and in Deuteronomy 32:47, God's law is our very life, so he is Gods law, the way, the truth, and the life made flesh, and the way to see and know the Father, and we don't need to appeal to John 14:6-11 and Matthew 11:27 in order to know that.

I've read this through more than once and tried hard to see how it relates to the question raised in the OP - but I don't think that it does.

 

[Soyeong]

I've read this through more than once and tried hard to see how it relates to the question raised in the OP - but I don't think that it does.

The title of this thread is "Knowing Jesus", so my post was in regard to what that means.

 

[tours]

it is important to notice what comes at the end of matthew 11:27 in nkjv it says "and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him" (the Father). so then the Father can be revealed to whoever Jesus wills it. But if Jesus wills it, then so does the Father since "I (Jesus) am in the Father, and the Father in Me" john 14:11 and "as the Father gave Me (Jesus) commandment, so I do" john 14:31.

John 6:44 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him"

john 14:6-7 "No one comes to the Father except through Me. If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you have known Him and have seen Him.

john 8:19 "If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also."

So no one can know Jesus and the Father unless it is given by Jesus and the Father. But we can certainly pray for Jesus to reveal Himself to us.

Isaiah 65:1 romans 10:20-21 "I was sought by those who did not ask for Me; I was found by those who did not seek Me"

 

[ViaCrucis]

I think, perhaps, key to answering this is found in Matthew 16:13-17, for upon Peter's confession of "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God" our Lord responds by telling him "flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven".

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Vanellus]

I think, perhaps, key to answering this is found in Matthew 16:13-17, for upon Peter's confession of "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God" our Lord responds by telling him "flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven".

-CryptoLutheran

Yes I thought about this but recall

Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time?

Here, knowing Jesus isn't about some special kind of spiritual disclosure, or hearing Peter's declaration. It's simply a matter of spending time with Jesus in this group of people (Jesus and his followers).

In the Jn 8:19 verse, Jesus is addressing Pharisees who are casting doubt on him, whereas Jesus' disciples had already shown a measure of faith in him by giving up their livelihoods to follow him.

 

[tours]

ephesians 2:8 "and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God.

romans 10:17 faith comes by hearing

and 1 corinthians 3:6-7 "but God who gives the increase."

 

[fhansen]

Comparing two gospel passages:

Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves.
from John 14

and

All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.
Mt 11:27

Admittedly these are slightly different Greek words but the word used in Mt 11:27 is also used here at the end of Mt 14 (as "recognized").
When they had crossed over, they landed at Gennesaret. 35And when the men of that place recognized Jesus, they sent word to all the surrounding country. People brought all their sick to him 36and begged him to let the sick just touch the edge of his cloak, and all who touched it were healed.

I think the difficult passage here is Mt 11:27 - especially the first part. No one knowing the Father except the Son and those whom the Son chooses to reveal the Father, makes sense. But Jesus is the Word of God. He came to us so that we would know better what God is like (other reasons as well of course). The whole idea is we get to know Jesus and so get to know the Father.

Now, again the same word can be used in different ways so maybe this is "really knows as the Father can know the Son". Is that what is going on here (in Mt 11:27)?

God is beyond our natural ability to comprehend. So while we can know something about Him through His revelation, ultimately through the words and deeds of Jesus, to know Him directly is a supernatural gift, of grace. And that’s why Jesus came:

“Now this is eternal life: that they know you,the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.” John 17:3

And this knowledge aligns with the knowledge prophesied in Jer 31:

“I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,”
declares the Lord.” Jer 31:33-34

 

[Vanellus]

God is beyond our natural ability to comprehend. So while we can know something about Him through His revelation, ultimately through the words and deeds of Jesus, to know Him directly is a supernatural gift, of grace. And that’s why Jesus came:

“Now this is eternal life: that they know you,the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.” John 17:3

And this knowledge aligns with the knowledge prophesied in Jer 31:

“I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,”
declares the Lord.” Jer 31:33-34

So, is Jesus asking Philip if he knows him (Jesus) directly?

 

[fhansen]

So, is Jesus asking Philip if he knows him (Jesus) directly?

Yes, if he knows Who He is. While we can begin to sense the differnce and superiority of Jesus, we're too small to comprehend God on our own, and yet by grace He can reveal Himself nonetheless. The transfiguration was such a moment, though more profound, obviously, than normal. In general our knowledge will grow here in this life, and then be fully complete in the next.

"For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known." Cor 13: