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Every atheist I know follows the same logic. No one wanting to ever research, to ever study or to ever get culturalized about it, no one perhaps even interested on why do I claim mine is right and theirs is wrong. I told you what to do if you think I lie, study, read, compare and get culturalized by yourself, if you don't believe me.
Hi,I gave you a lot of evidence from professional scientists, I can give you a lot more. In science no one does everything in a vacuum, they use each others work to build on. I don't need to find the tailbone in a Humans body, the gills in a fetus in the womb, the 100s of dead scent glands we still have which are a relic from our distant past, the different Hominids that were here before and during Humans life on Earth. Others have done this work before, had it reviewed, had it accepted, and going on to discover more truth.
You do need to show your work to seem credible, especially now you claim to talk and meet god and angels. As you say, you will never show your work. Why should someone so blessed have to do anything for us mere mortals?
If you just say "they all claim the same so they can't be truth" you will go nowhere. Yes, they all claim the same, but only one of them claims them honestly and without lying. The only answer I can give to you is to study by yourself, to learn and to compare the theology by yourself and so you will find the answer.
By the way, the Orthodox Church is oneIt just carries the name of the countries it is in, but that doesn't divide it.
This is what I said.If you just say "they all claim the same so they can't be truth" you will go nowhere. Yes, they all claim the same, but only one of them claims them honestly and without lying. The only answer I can give to you is to study by yourself, to learn and to compare the theology by yourself and so you will find the answer.
By the way, the Orthodox Church is oneIt just carries the name of the countries it is in, but that doesn't divide it.
Study what? Not the bible in order to believe in the bible. One needs to study History, Archeology and Paleontology to see the bible is wrong.Every atheist I know follows the same logic. No one wanting to ever research, to ever study or to ever get culturalized about it, no one perhaps even interested on why do I claim mine is right and theirs is wrong. I told you what to do if you think I lie, study, read, compare and get culturalized by yourself, if you don't believe me.
When you say "proof" the Bible is wrong, I don't really understand what you are looking for? Science has proved that the earth is billions of years old and that humankind evolved, does that not prove that god didn't "make" Adam and Eve? If you're looking for more than that, you might as well ask for proof that all the stories in the Harry Potter books are "wrong"..... I could say I believe in them and that a very powerful wizard has made the world so that Harry Potter and the wizards live among us undetected - could you prove me wrong?Hi,
I still cannot find anyone in my searches, who has proved the Bible is wrong. That is what I asked. Your implications from your statement, is there are multiple proofs that the Bible has been proven wrong, yet I just looked and ai can't find any yet.
LOVE,
...Mary., .... .
When you say "proof" the Bible is wrong, I don't really understand what you are looking for? Science has proved that the earth is billions of years old and that humankind evolved, does that not prove that god didn't "make" Adam and Eve? If you're looking for more than that, you might as well ask for proof that all the stories in the Harry Potter books are "wrong"..... I could say I believe in them and that a very powerful wizard has made the world so that Harry Potter and the wizards live among us undetected - could you prove me wrong?
But you've just answered yourself, the Universe is immeasurably old, and has evolved not been created. Fossils show that human kind evolved and was not created, what more proof do you want that the bible is a story, a work of fiction?Hi,
The definition of proof here is, like 2+2=4, like those controlled experiments that I did, and essentially accidentally found out the Bible rather than being fiction, was verified.
I mean like with hard evidence like Radio Carbon Dating, which shows that man existed at Fort Rock in Oregon as far back as 14,000 plus years ago. I just got finished watching that program on OPB.
I mean the kind of proof that stands up, not to reporters, and not to conspiracy theorists, but to normal honest scientists.
The universe being roughly 13,000,000,000 years old, and the earth being roughly 3,500,000,000 suggests only that The Bible is wrong. Do you know that those folks who claim Adam was created in 5,000 B.C. or so guessed only that their interprtations of that date were accurate? Do you remember the words spoken, not the reports of them but the words spoken against Galileo? They said he was wrong by Scripture in several places.
Getting the Bible wrong in translations for scientific items is common. Yet, it still has not been proven wrong yet, like in proving that the acceleration do to gravity is the same for all objects, independent of their weight/mass, in a vacuum. They used to think it was weight related. Also at one time, phlogiston, a subtance, was thought to be in things, and releasing that caused burning. Time used to be a constant. All of those have had experiments to prove them wrong. I mean proofs like that.
LOVE,
...Mary., .... .
Really? The preacher at my door yesterday said it was a different church.Yes, there is, you just don't know itIt's called the Orthodox Church.
There is it, there is the approach that marks the difference. Christianity in the West has lost its roots, it got denatured, it is nothing more than a "religion", nothing more than "a system of beliefs" that have to be proved by the "superior" intellectuals in order to be believed.
Communion with God doesn't come with proof, this whole thing of proving God doesn't come in our world until the 11th century with the development of Scholastics, with Anselm of Canterbury, when they thought human reason and logic is enough to prove God, but it only represents an edenic fall from knowledge and it deeply marked the West inot losing the mystery of the divine union between man and God through Jesus Christ, the feeling of God's grace and the mysticism of the restauration of the fallen man. Atheists argue from reason/intellect. We, Orthodox christians, argue from life, living experience, from the heart moulded by daily life and prayer. So we have two completely different approaches. It could even be said that the fact that for us there is NO rational proof of the existence of God is proof that He exists. For us, He is Creator and we are creation. How can you expect the created human reason to understand the Creator, when our knowledge (so-called science/scientia) of the Creation is still minute, even though it increases daily? If we could understand God, it would be proof that He is a manmade myth. Only the real God is beyond human reason, meta-rational (though not irrational).
If you ever want to meet God, cleanse from sin, purify yourself and God will reveal to you, because that effort from turning from sin to virtue is what will make you sensitive of God's grace and the metanoia will happen. The proofs of God's existence I would say that make us sinful, and why do I say that? Because in order to seek proof of God we are declaring ourselves judges over God, like He isn't good enough for us only if He fits our reasoning, our logic, our minds, creating in us the worst sin of them all, pride, opening an umbrella above our heads that keeps us from God's grace.
There are many Christians, Muslims, and Jews praying that you will discover him (in their religion).After all, you cannot teach people not willing to learn, right?
God acts in the same way I suppose, He will not reveal Himself to those not willing to discover Him.
After all, you cannot teach people not willing to learn, right?
God acts in the same way I suppose, He will not reveal Himself to those not willing to discover Him.
But you've just answered yourself, the Universe is immeasurably old, and has evolved not been created. Fossils show that human kind evolved and was not created, what more proof do you want that the bible is a story, a work of fiction?
Of course, as a person of faith, you will believe the bible is true, that's fine but blind faith does not make it a fact.
i hope that your beliefs give you comfort and peace.Hi,
I don't and never have used blind faith. I am against it now, even if I am later found to be wrong. I was against and said so in seventh grade.
I want hard proof the book is fiction. I was given hard proof the Bible is Real when
I was sixty. Then I was given more and more, to the point that at times, I doubted my own sanity.
In one case, a Ph.D. psychologist told me. "Isn't it nice that you are getting verifications for who you are?" One of her clients had just mentioned after I had left, that the healing energy was extremely high compared to normal, the week before. I brought this up, because both the Pschologist and that woman noticed things, as a result of my connection with God at times, and so I could tell you this next part.
I deal with people who are alcoholics and Narcissists, one pschopath, etc etc etc. Over the years they have given me much trouble. To combat their accusations, when they accused me of being the one with the problems, I would submit myself to the Psychologists, Therapists and Psychiatrists to find out if they were right? Was I some form of mentally ill? They all said the same things about me, which was that, if I am mentally ill, they see no signs of it, with the possible exception of very light OCD, but no one was sure of that then. The first diagnosis of normalcy surprised me. The last one was the best in a way.
For the last one, for GID, I am getting a full Psychiatric exam, and it took five weeks ir so. The result was, no pathologies, but real mysticism, Real GID, and a very high Spiritual connection, that is usually only understood by high clerics or highly spiritual persons. And I was given a letter from them to protect me in the future from people.
The hardest for me for awhile, was to accept being a real mystic. I had always denied that as either a form of episodic mental illness, or one off episodes with God, that does not make me a mystic, let alone a medical mystic, let alone a normal condition in some people.
When, I was finally done with trying to prove the Bible wrong, it was the results of the Controlled experiments, that proved the Bible was right. So, with a hard proof, like five controlled experiments with zero variance in the data, which is impossible, all saying the same thing, The Bible is Real, I would need the opposing experiment to be that solid.
Bible people think they need their scientific interpretations to be right it seems, thus evolution, Sun centered planetary system, the age of man, and the name of God even have all historically been claimed as beyond contstation, yet not only were they wrong on those items, it is nit clearly stated in the Bible any of those things, but rather it is stated to do and follow science, and even the Laws of the government, to discern God's Will on items not specifically talked about in that book.
It us fear maybe. It us lack of something. My position is unique, in that I have the proofs, and much follow on evidence, but maybe me supposedly being a real Christian type of Mystic, also allows this normal heavy science and experimental type, to also be able to do the work properly on those controlled experiments. I don't really know why the God types fear science, but how many of them have essentially seen God, also?
Have I lost you yet? I hope not.
I will leave off here. Hard proofs, like science ones, not suggestions, but hard proofs that the Bible is false, is what I would need to falsify, my data, like proving it is oxygen and not a sustance called Phlogiston, that is responsible for burning.
Thanks, for being kind.
LOVE,
...Mary., .... .
Communion with God doesn't come with proof, this whole thing of proving God doesn't come in our world until the 11th century with the development of Scholastics, with Anselm of Canterbury, when they thought human reason and logic is enough to prove God, but it only represents an edenic fall from knowledge and it deeply marked the West inot losing the mystery of the divine union between man and God through Jesus Christ, the feeling of God's grace and the mysticism of the restauration of the fallen man. Atheists argue from reason/intellect. We, Orthodox christians, argue from life, living experience, from the heart moulded by daily life and prayer. So we have two completely different approaches. It could even be said that the fact that for us there is NO rational proof of the existence of God is proof that He exists. For us, He is Creator and we are creation. How can you expect the created human reason to understand the Creator, when our knowledge (so-called science/scientia) of the Creation is still minute, even though it increases daily? If we could understand God, it would be proof that He is a manmade myth. Only the real God is beyond human reason, meta-rational (though not irrational).
And for those who disagreed, there was always execution for heresy.After all, you cannot teach people not willing to learn, right?
God acts in the same way I suppose, He will not reveal Himself to those not willing to discover Him.
i hope that your beliefs give you comfort and peace.
The Tsar used the church, nothing out of the ordinary with rulers using religion.The "old believers" problem Russia had was more of a political disagreement, I told you that never in the Orthodox Church something like executions like those happened and it is real, the russian's crimes were never in order of the Church.
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