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I have no problem with what you're saying. This however does not reconcile the statement in question made by PrinctonGuy:
This is what needs to be answered ... By PrinctonGuy.
Please understand I am not asking for the etymology of πεινάω or πένης.
Rather, an affirmative statement was made by PrinctonGuy that needs to be answered by him.
The above statement must be addressed.
Jack
I tend to think most folks would get the meaning that Jesus was hungry. However, the above quote I agree with. It is not overly consistent.
PrinctonGuy, would you please do us (at least me), the honor of telling us just what is meant by these words?
Jack
The construction is so extremely rare and archaic that we do not have enough data to answer that question with certainty, and scholars of early English differ substantially in their opinion. Almost for certain, however, Cambridge and Oxford copies of the KJV give us an incorrect spelling, but the American Bible Society gives us one of two correct spellingsbased upon Merriam-Websters Third New International Dictionary (their flagship dictionary). Oxford dictionaries give us additional variant spellings, but not the one found in Cambridge and Oxford editions of the KJV, and disagree with the meanings given in Merriam-Websters Third New International Dictionary. Based upon these dictionaries and other sources, including a lengthy academic paper on the construction, I believe that Oxford dictionaries are likely more accurate regarding this particular construction, and that it is a past participle rather than an adjective like most readers of the KJV assume it to be. In the Greek New Testament, it is a verb in the indicative mood.
I have already posted,
It is commonly assumed by readers of the KJV that the words simply mean that Jesus was hungry having fasted for forty days and nightsbut that is NOT what the words mean!
PrincetonGuy;67090541 It is commonly assumed by readers of the KJV that the words simply mean that Jesus was hungry having fasted for forty days and nightsbut that is NOT what the words mean![/quote said:Alright, let me see if I can clarify. Most readers of the KJV assume that the verse means Jesus was hungry. It appears that the Greek also means Jesus was hungry.
Is what you were trying to say that if they actually read the phrase in English it is not really that clear that it is saying Jesus was hungry?
Either way, most folks get the point, even if they do not get it by carefully breaking down one of the various ways it is phrased in the printed KJV renditions.
It is commonly assumed by readers of the KJV that the words simply mean that Jesus was hungry having fasted for forty days and nightsbut that is NOT what the words mean!
Friend:
Right over the head.
The KJV is a dated version of the Bible, translated from younger MSS and from Latin. It was OK in 1611 but now.... No!
At the end of the day what I see:
KJV(granting that it is more inspired/accurate/ect): requires a working knowledge of old English which is readily available but time consuming
NKJV and the like: No special study needed but dubious accuracy and lack of cultural clues
Original Language: Requires a working knowledge of the original language which is readily available but time consuming. However this process will absolutely reveal the contemporary cultural clues, rhetorical cues, and are the translations from which the rest spawn.
For my time and investment I would rather develop a working knowledge of the language that was actually spoken, it seems like a relatively small sacrifice to hear what the God who saved me actually said.
In Peace,
cardoctor
What I have seen for years:
The KJV was a good translation when evaluated by the translation standards of the early 1600s, but when evaluated by todays translation standards, it falls short of being accurate enough for Bible study.
So for the KJV only folks, what would you think of the following options:
a. such efforts as the UKJV which replaces archaic terms with newer ones but tries to keep as much as possible of the KJV ?
b. A new translation, by a trusted committee, of the majority text (of whichever flavor you favor).
KJV is of God.
You are evading the question which you have yet to answer.
You stated:
It is commonly assumed by readers of the KJV that the words simply mean that Jesus was hungry having fasted for forty days and nightsbut that is NOT what the words mean!
This is not matter of etymology of the Greek or English words in and of themselves. This is a matter of what is meant by the entirety of the portion of scripture. Please allow me to explain.
πεινάω means "to famish", while the root πένης means "starving". I'm pretty sure we can all get "hungry" or "hungred" (as in the KJV) from these words. However, you clearly state that "this is NOT what the words mean". Since you do not believe these words mean that Jesus was hungry after fasting for 40 days and nights, please tell us what these words DO mean.
As a matter of 'definition', when I use the term "Bible", I am referring to what is commonly known as the 'Christian' Bible.
Generally speaking, the history of the Bible is quite simple. What history shows is that there were two opposing texts of the Bible since soon after the time of the Apostles: the first being represented by Jerome's Vulgate, used by the Church of Rome, (which text type mainly aligns with the Greek Alexandrian text type); the second being represented by the Old Itala, used throughout the Byzantine Empire by such people as the Waldenses. The text of the Old Itala mainly being in agreement with the Greek Byzantine text type.
Please provide scriptural support for this statement.
Where in the scriptures does it say that the KJV is the word of God.
God Bless
Till all are one.
Please provide scriptural support for this statement.
Where in the scriptures does it say that the KJV is the word of God.
God Bless
Till all are one.
if we use that question then we must also use it to ask to show scriptural proof that the ESV, NIV, NASB, TNIV is the word of God... Or how about show scriptural proof that the Hebrew and Greek Manuscripts that we use to translate into the KJV,NIV, ESV etc... is the word of God?
By believing in God we are able to discern the truth. The word is pure. Any version that is from God is pure.
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