Kim Davis

[jckstraw72]

Unless they are a dead Christian lying in Syria or the Levant lets refrain from using the word "martyr," to describe American moonbats. This is like saying every cashier who says "Merry Christmas," is a literal freedom fighter for Christ. This is bourgeois decadence, really.

She was found in contempt, did 5 days in county probably in PC to be released to continue to not do her job. This is in no way sounds like a hero at all, more it sounds like some of my spring breaks when I first started college lol like come on, raise the bar.

it wasn't her choice to do only 5 days. she stood up and faced the punishment not knowing what it would be.

but, you know, has anyone actually called her a martyr? a martyr dies for the faith.

 

[St Herman's Ghost]

Yep

 

[St Herman's Ghost]

it wasn't her choice to do only 5 days. she stood up and faced the punishment not knowing what it would be.

but, you know, has anyone actually called her a martyr? a martyr dies for the faith.

County jail is not that big of a deal. I know, I've been, lol, it's like an awful summer camp. The horror.

 

[jckstraw72]

who has actually claimed she died for the faith, eh? if perhaps someone has used the word "martyr" perhaps we should consider they may be using a different definition ... you know, "martyr" literally means "witness."

 

[St Herman's Ghost]

who has actually claimed she died for the faith, eh? if perhaps someone has used the word "martyr" perhaps we should consider they may be using a different definition ... you know, "martyr" literally means "witness."

How do you know this isn't a grand way at garnering attention for herself? Wouldn't that be the sin of pride and vanity? Wouldn't it be awful if she was using the banner of Christ to commit these transgressions? Why celebrate that or give notice or nod of approval?

 

[jckstraw72]

how do you know it's not sincere and the strength wasn't given to her by the Holy Spirit? why deny the works of God?!

or we could just admit that we don't know her heart.

 

[GregConstantine]

People like Kim Davis makes any attempt of evangelism on our part 100 times more difficult to do! Uggh!

 

[All4Christ]

Seriously, it's amazing how much division things like this can cause. I am thankful when people stand up for their faith, and props to anyine who does that. I personally think it could have been handled better, but I wasn't there, and I haven't experienced the same thing. Also, there are many more who have experienced much more hardship than she has that have very little media coverage...and it doesn't matter to them. Their end goal is for standing up for their beliefs. Again, I don't know her heart.

Ultimately, thanks be to God for anyone standing up for faith, prayers to God for us to live out our faith personally and support for our fellow believers as they stand up for truth as well.

 

[GregConstantine]

You can stand up, but that doesn't mean you're standing up for the right reason.

Again, this tread isn't about Kim Davis standing up, it's about Orthodox people making her out to be a martyr.

 

[GregConstantine]

"Seriously, it's amazing how much division things like this can cause."

That's because "these things" are not well thought out, and the vast majority of people formulate their opinions about things after having a knee jerk emotional reaction to them.

 

[St Herman's Ghost]

how do you know it's not sincere and the strength wasn't given to her by the Holy Spirit? why deny the works of God?!

or we could just admit that we don't know her heart.

Which would be fine if it was just like that Muslim woman who won't sell alcohol and didn't involve making other peoples lives extremely difficult and awful. To what benefit does this serve? To have some lady make us look like fools?

 

[All4Christ]

"Seriously, it's amazing how much division things like this can cause."

That's because "these things" are not well thought out, and the vast majority of people formulate their opinions about things after having a knee jerk emotional reaction to them.

I would tend to agree that reactions to many events like this are too strong...and part of my 'reaction' of feeling frustrated is that we aren't consistent, myself included, with the people / events we focus on. That's one of the reasons I have mixed feelings about social media. I do this far too often myself, and I am talking about the general populace, not anyone specific.

 

[GregConstantine]

All4Christ, I agree. I think social media is a big problem, or perhaps, it's revealing a problem that was always there.

I understand you're speaking in general terms, so no worries there.

 

[rusmeister]

County jail is not that big of a deal. I know, I've been, lol, it's like an awful summer camp. The horror.

I have been unjustly arrested. It was no fun. It was NOT summer camp. I was stripped down to my underpants and searched. I really object to people making nothing of being arrested for indefinite periods. You DON'T know what it's like, begging your pardon.

And on the whole call for her to resign, this is how I see it:
"But it would have also communicated to her compatriots that serious Christians, not to mention observant Jews and Muslims, are the sorts of citizens who, because of their religious beliefs and practices, are not suitable candidates for public service."

 

[GregConstantine]

"And on the whole call for her to resign, this is how I see it:
"But it would have also communicated to her compatriots that serious Christians, not to mention observant Jews and Muslims, are the sorts of citizens who, because of their religious beliefs and practices, are not suitable candidates for public service."

oh my gosh you are still missing the point!

 

[jckstraw72]

All4Christ, I agree. I think social media is a big problem, or perhaps, it's revealing a problem that was always there.

put your money where your mouth is. quit social media. have even the fraction of the courage of a Kim Davis.

 

[dzheremi]

There are Christians right now in the world who are arrested and sent to jail for doing positive things for their fellow human beings, too, rather than attracting negative attention to their faith and thereby tarring us all. I have not heard any secular person (which is literally every young person and many older people I know who I didn't meet in church or some other Christianity-focused context) make the kinds of distinctions we'd hope they would make, as non-evangelicals. It's always " look what the Christians are doing; typical hatred and hypocrisy", so I think people who are focusing on this particular event are missing the bigger picture. It only takes one Kim Davis to wipe out all our good works and profoundly transformative theology in the eyes of those we would like to reach, because we're dealing with people young and old who are shell-shocked from decades of culture wars wherein Christianity is a political motivation, not the life-giving faith given once and for all to the saints, nor the proclamation and reality of Jesus Christ's victory over sin and death. I can't and won't claim to know Kim Davis' heart and soul, but it doesn't take that to see the effect that her actions and attitude are having.

 

[All4Christ]

put your money where your mouth is. quit social media. have even the fraction of the courage of a Kim Davis.

You can have a social media account for sharing photos or thoughts with family and friends and avoid participating in things like this. Just because I recognize that social media does have an impact on what people pay attention to today doesn't mean anything related to courage. I know you are directing this response at Greg, but his response was confirming what I posted earlier. No matter whether Kim Davis should be a hero of the Christian faith or if she is damaging the reputation of Christianity is besides the point. The point is that we often focus on the news cases that are promoted via social media...the hot ticket items, so to speak. People share and reshare, and soon it gets a life of its own. It can be a wonderful tool - and vice versa. It can also be very divisive, as is shown in this thread.

 

[jckstraw72]

i agree that social media can be quite good. how many people have come to the Orthodox faith via this forum, FB, etc? thank God!

 

[jckstraw72]

There are Christians right now in the world who are arrested and sent to jail for doing positive things for their fellow human beings, too, rather than attracting negative attention to their faith and thereby tarring us all. I have not heard any secular person (which is literally every young person and many older people I know who I didn't meet in church or some other Christianity-focused context) make the kinds of distinctions we'd hope they would make, as non-evangelicals. It's always " look what the Christians are doing; typical hatred and hypocrisy", so I think people who are focusing on this particular event are missing the bigger picture. It only takes one Kim Davis to wipe out all our good works and profoundly transformative theology in the eyes of those we would like to reach, because we're dealing with people young and old who are shell-shocked from decades of culture wars wherein Christianity is a political motivation, not the life-giving faith given once and for all to the saints, nor the proclamation and reality of Jesus Christ's victory over sin and death. I can't and won't claim to know Kim Davis' heart and soul, but it doesn't take that to see the effect that her actions and attitude are having.

of course her actions look bad to those who are of a profoundly anti-Christian mindset. the Lord told us to expect as much. i don't have any particular judgment on her actions, but the fact that she drew "negative attention" to Christianity is really pretty meaningless. Christians refusing to offer their pinch of incense really ticked off the Emperor and his loyal subjects too.