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Kill the kids but not the devil?

TheKingOfImmortality

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One of my big reasons on why I left the religon was when I saw how many people God killed in the Old Testament (the part that really gets to me is when he killed the frist born of Eygpt) I thought It was vary hypocritcal of him, that he tell us to forgive and love our enemys when he could not do the same. (I dont care if the hebrews were slaves back then, I do not belive in the killing of Childerin, for any reason)


But now I just relized something, If he is okeay with killing for his people and really loves us, how come he never killed Satan?


He okeay with killing childerin but not the fallen angel who caused all the problems in the frist place and is still trying to get to us?


I cound never answer these qustions and I need answers.


So why?
 

WarEagle

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One of my big reasons on why I left the religon was when I saw how many people God killed in the Old Testament (the part that really gets to me is when he killed the frist born of Eygpt) I thought It was vary hypocritcal of him, that he tell us to forgive and love our enemys when he could not do the same. (I dont care if the hebrews were slaves back then, I do not belive in the killing of Childerin, for any reason)


But now I just relized something, If he is okeay with killing for his people and really loves us, how come he never killed Satan?


He okeay with killing childerin but not the fallen angel who caused all the problems in the frist place and is still trying to get to us?


I cound never answer these qustions and I need answers.


So why?

1. Because God has the right to punish the wicked and protect His children.

2. I know you're going to completely ignore this, but "firstborn" doesn't mean children.

3. God didn't kill Satan because Satan is a spirit and cannot be killed. However, Jesus Christ has defeated Satan and Satan has no power, except over those who choose to follow him.
 
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tapero

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One of my big reasons on why I left the religon was when I saw how many people God killed in the Old Testament (the part that really gets to me is when he killed the frist born of Eygpt) I thought It was vary hypocritcal of him, that he tell us to forgive and love our enemys when he could not do the same. (I dont care if the hebrews were slaves back then, I do not belive in the killing of Childerin, for any reason)


But now I just relized something, If he is okeay with killing for his people and really loves us, how come he never killed Satan?


He okeay with killing childerin but not the fallen angel who caused all the problems in the frist place and is still trying to get to us?


I cound never answer these qustions and I need answers.


So why?

God gave angels and man free will. satan has free will and sinned and man sinned. Destroying satan would not solve the worlds problems as people will still sin. When I sin, I can assure you, I do so cause I want to, not because satan is making me sin. Same as any man, they freely sin, satan can't force someone to sin, unless in the case of demon possession, which I know nothing about, if a demon enters a man, I've no clue if a demon could cause a person to sin or if that one possessed willingly gives over to the demon, no clue on that one.

It's a shame that you say you lost faith over the ot where God orders babies killed, because you must have missed that God is perfect, righteous, good, Holy, never does evil, is pure, etc.

Had you realized those truths, you would realize that for whatever reason God did some of the things done in the Old Testament are for reasons God needed to do so, which we don't know the reasons, as often some judgements are not explained why. If you think God doesn't care or love every individual on the earth you're wrong.

So when God passed judgements we don't know the mind of God. Though sometimes He explains and sometimes He does not explain. But when He has wrath and judges and death occurs, a person who has faith in God, who can't quite grasp the why's still has faith in God as we know what I listed
God is perfect, righteous, good, Holy, never does evil, is pure, and much much more
and we don't doubt God's qualities that we know, no matter what they are.

We live by faith.

He is the creator and He knows the why's of things. The bible is not exhaustive nor do we know if we will ever be told many things, though surely we may.

Why he never destroyed satan isn't spoken, but since man sins, the world wouldn't change very much, as people kill, steal, destroy, and many other heinous things men do of their own free will.

satan isn't causing all the problems in the first place as you wrote. As since God has determined not to destroy satan there is a reason, we don't know, but we know satans end.

But it's a good question, never thought of it.

If you focus on Christ who is our salvation for those who believe in Him, your whole world will change, as well as your take on God and though we all wrestle with difficult or sometimes easy passages, when one has faith in Christ, we know God, and know He is good, and never does evil.

We live by faith.
 
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Digit

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Hello TheKingOfImmortality,

I think Augustine (great Christian theologician) said that even children are not innocent. That is he had the strength when he was a baby, he would have strangled his mother trying to get at her milk.

Satan I feel is on borrowed time. He has dominion over our world now, but only as much as God gives him. I think it is well within God's power to destroy Satan, but don't quote me on that. I mean, the Bible says that everything is possible with God, I cannot remember if that is specifically within creation or not, if so then perhaps War Eagle is right and Satan cannot be destroyed, but if God is omnipotent, then I reckon he can, and I think there is something bigger here that we are not provy too.

Faith is the key. :)

Cheers!
Digit
 
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One of my big reasons on why I left the religon was when I saw how many people God killed in the Old Testament (the part that really gets to me is when he killed the frist born of Eygpt) I thought It was vary hypocritcal of him, that he tell us to forgive and love our enemys when he could not do the same. (I dont care if the hebrews were slaves back then, I do not belive in the killing of Childerin, for any reason)


But now I just relized something, If he is okeay with killing for his people and really loves us, how come he never killed Satan?


He okeay with killing childerin but not the fallen angel who caused all the problems in the frist place and is still trying to get to us?


I cound never answer these qustions and I need answers.


So why?
I will do my best to answer you.

God is God. We are Humans.

God gives his directions to Humans who believe Him. God gives them directions because they are Not Gods because they are limited.

The Laws of God where and are designed for Humans.

They where Not designed for God.

As an example.

Lets say that at a daycare centre for toddlers there is a firm Law that if the childeren are dropped off at the centre they must be holding an adults hand before they cross the road.

Is this Law desgined for an adult who might want to cross the road? Or is this Law made for and in the interest of the toddler?

What if a toddler holding their pairent's hand looks across the road and sees one of the daycare workers crossing the road without holding on to someones hand. Would the toddler be right to think the daycare worker was a hypocrite or feel that the law applied to them was unjustified?

Clearly in this case the law was designed for the safty and benifit of the toddlers who have limited awareness as to just how dangerious the road is. It was not designed for the Law giver who understands the dangers of crossing the road.


So i hope at this point in the post you have come to understand that the Guidance that God gives to us is the way it is because we are the way we are. That the Guidance that God gives to us is not designed for Himself. That God can do things that we should not do because God has the total situational awareness and perfect wisdom to take the best cource of action at all times. While we, having limited situational awareness do not have the clarity of insight to be able to take on such responsability.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
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Ok let’s go to the hard one. God killing Children.

In the OT God revealed something very important while dealing with the rebellious Israelites when they refused to enter into the Promised Land. Because of their rebellion God had stated His intention to destroy the Israelites. But the people replied to God that while they where guilty of rebellion and deserved judgement, their children where innocent and had no say in the rebellion. God replied to their protest.[FONT=&quot][/FONT]

Deuteronomy 1

39 ‘Moreover your little ones and your children, who you say will be victims, who today have no knowledge of good and evil, they shall go in there; to them I will give it, and they shall possess it. 40 But as for you, turn and take your journey into the wilderness by the Way of the Red Sea.’


This statement about their little ones is very important. Adam and Eve became unacceptable to dwell in the presence of God in the Garden of eden when they came to the knowledge of Good and Evil. So before they came to the knowledge of Good and Evil they where acceptable to dwell in the presence of God. Here in the above scripture God declares that the little ones had no knowledge of Good and Evil.


[FONT=&quot]So with this in mind what happens to little ones who are killed after they die? If they are without the knowledge of Good and Evil they are acceptable to dwell in eternity with God right.

So God decided to bring judgement against a rebellious Egypt by taking away their little ones. Tell me what would be better for the little ones? To be left there with rebellious/evil parents to grow up and be taught evil and rebellion. Or to be taken by the Angel of death into the loving arms of God for eternity? We know Death is not the end and to a true believer in God death is a transition from this faulty world into a perfect state of existence.

I can see why those who do not believe in eternity with God would see the death of a little one as a great tragedy. But to one who believes in God the Little ones have been given a wonderful early mark into eternity with God.

For the little ones it was a great blessing. The hurt and suffering was to their disbelieving and rebellious parents, it was their loss, not the little ones loss to be liberated from the evil world where they lived.

You find this hard to accept?

Dwell on it for a while, think about it.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days[/FONT]
 
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[FONT=&quot]
how come he never killed Satan?

satan was an Angel. But he was not the only Angel. We do not know how many Angles there are. There could be billions for all we know.

satan made his challenge to the legitimacy of Gods exclusivity as being the One and Only God. satan claimed that he was equal to God that he had the ability to be God to be equal with God.

Now what if God had simply killed satan. Would God appear to the Heavenly Host (Angels) as ruling because of His perfection and ability to rule or would they believe He was ruling by brute force? Would they think that God was ruling by his might rather than because He was right.

I believe God wants to demonstrate to the heavenly host that He is justified in being the One and Only God of all existence because He is the only one who has the perfection to be God. Is it not better for God to be followed by those who willingly agree that He is justified to be the one and only God, who willingly accept His rule because He is rightfully the Ruler of all existence?

I believe that God had to allow satan to make his challenge to allow satan a fair chance to demonstrate his credentials so that satan would clearly demonstrate by his actions that he was unfit to be the equal of God. So that the Heavenly Host and all of creation (us included) would know that God was God not just because He has ultimate power but because He has all wisdom and is perfect in all things.

If you like, God gave satan enough rope so as to hang himself.

I believe God wants to be followed willingly by those who believe and proclaim that He is justified to be the one and only God, who are filled with love and joy that they are loved be such a perfect God. And God is a God of loving kindness and coming to the knowledge of that love removes the fear of God.

1 John 4
18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
 
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ChristIsTHEKing

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One of my big reasons on why I left the religon was when I saw how many people God killed in the Old Testament (the part that really gets to me is when he killed the frist born of Eygpt) I thought It was vary hypocritcal of him, that he tell us to forgive and love our enemys when he could not do the same. (I dont care if the hebrews were slaves back then, I do not belive in the killing of Childerin, for any reason)


But now I just relized something, If he is okeay with killing for his people and really loves us, how come he never killed Satan?


He okeay with killing childerin but not the fallen angel who caused all the problems in the frist place and is still trying to get to us?


I cound never answer these qustions and I need answers.


So why?

Hi, I understand your question of this topic because it is a tough one to understand. Let me first make a distinction between "killing" and judgement. Killing is taking unlawful murder into one's own hands which is forbidden by God's laws. Judgement, which only God can do, is passing on to those who choose not to keep his covenant and follow His laws. The people that died in the Old Testament, many hebrews by the way, were given a multitude of opportunities to turn and follow the God of all creation. The jews for instance made a covenant with God that they would follow Him and obey His laws. They agreed to pay with their lives, and their families lives if they did not keep this covenant. Even the pagan nations were given many chances to change their heart, like the pharaoh, but didn't. Enslaving God's people brought judgement upon that nation and many others as one example. Also, judgement was always in proportion to the miracles that happened at that time. You will generally see a miracle preceed a judegement which is important because I think miracles were in part, given to assure the people that He is God. One point I would make that I find interesting is that you did the very thing that you abhor God for doing, passing judgement. We can say we don't know everything so make judgements based on incomplete information breaks all laws of reason. One thing we do know is God offers you mercy and forgiveness. Remember that somone also died for you, I pray you accept Jesus Christ.
 
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SonicBOOM

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One of my big reasons on why I left the religon was when I saw how many people God killed in the Old Testament (the part that really gets to me is when he killed the frist born of Eygpt) I thought It was vary hypocritcal of him, that he tell us to forgive and love our enemys when he could not do the same. (I dont care if the hebrews were slaves back then, I do not belive in the killing of Childerin, for any reason)


But now I just relized something, If he is okeay with killing for his people and really loves us, how come he never killed Satan?


He okeay with killing childerin but not the fallen angel who caused all the problems in the frist place and is still trying to get to us?


I cound never answer these qustions and I need answers.


So why?

I really respect your honesty :) it's hard to understand but I have a few thereies out there about this

1. Satan doesn't even exist: this is possable and would answer the quistion with a simple "God didn't kill Satan because Satan never existed". The problem here though is why is there evil? also it doesn't quite justify God's killing acts in the OT.

2. we don't understand the isrealite situation: I like this answer alot better because it is very honest. Anyone knows that to leave evil alive would be to rip mercy from the victoms of evil! So maybe God's acts of killing were an act of justice because of the oppression that these people caused their victoms. We aren't ever really given a full list of reasons why God kills certain people in the OT. All we ever get is "the man was evil in the eyes of the Lord, so the Lord put him to death". ok.... God thinks the man is evil! Why? What did he do? we don't know..... it could've been something truly diobolical, and i wouldn't doubt it considering the Hebrew culture during BC.

3. evil helps accomplish the plans of God: this is probably the least popular answer of them all.... though for some reason I accept it. St. augestine says that "God thought it better to bring good out of evil rather than completely destorying evil". This answers why Satan still lives.... though it doesn't answer why God kills


Take your pick :) i personally say it's a mixture of a couple of these answers.... but it truly is baffling.
 
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SonicBOOM

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[FONT=&quot]So God decided to bring judgement against a rebellious Egypt by taking away their little ones. Tell me what would be better for the little ones? To be left there with rebellious/evil parents to grow up and be taught evil and rebellion. Or to be taken by the Angel of death into the loving arms of God for eternity? We know Death is not the end and to a true believer in God death is a transition from this faulty world into a perfect state of existence. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I can see why those who do not believe in eternity with God would see the death of a little one as a great tragedy. But to one who believes in God the Little ones have been given a wonderful early mark into eternity with God. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]For the little ones it was a great blessing. The hurt and suffering was to their disbelieving and rebellious parents, it was their loss, not the little ones loss to be liberated from the evil world where they lived.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]You find this hard to accept?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Dwell on it for a while, think about it.[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]All Praise The Ancient Of Days[/FONT]

this is REALLY profound! It almost makes me picture a dad who takes away his own children from the care of men who abuse them. I think it's important to remember that these babies are more GOD'S children than they are Egypt's and therefore God has the right to deny evil men the power to abuse his children. VERY profound :) thank you for sharing :)
 
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DreamAngel

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This statement about their little ones is very important. Adam and Eve became unacceptable to dwell in the presence of God in the Garden of eden when they came to the knowledge of Good and Evil. So before they came to the knowledge of Good and Evil they where acceptable to dwell in the presence of God. Here in the above scripture God declares that the little ones had no knowledge of Good and Evil.

[FONT=&quot]So with this in mind what happens to little ones who are killed after they die? If they are without the knowledge of Good and Evil they are acceptable to dwell in eternity with God right.

So God decided to bring judgment against a rebellious Egypt by taking away their little ones. Tell me what would be better for the little ones? To be left there with rebellious/evil parents to grow up and be taught evil and rebellion. Or to be taken by the Angel of death into the loving arms of God for eternity? We know Death is not the end and to a true believer in God death is a transition from this faulty world into a perfect state of existence.

For the little ones it was a great blessing. The hurt and suffering was to their disbelieving and rebellious parents, it was their loss, not the little ones loss to be liberated from the evil world where they lived.[/FONT]

Wow. I have been struggling with the same question that TheKingOfImmortality had for a long time. I have always wondered why God would just take the lives of innocent children. Now, thanks to you, I can understand this better! I understand now that God was not punishing the children or taking their lives just because he could. He was saving the children from future sin and punishing the parents of the children at the same time. I want to thank you so much for your explanation! (Tell me if 'm not understanding something please!)

-Dream Angel
 
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Stinker

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Hosea 13:16 (New American Standard Bible)





16Samaria will be held guilty,
For she has rebelled against her God
They will fall by the sword,
Their little ones will be dashed in pieces,
And their pregnant women will be ripped open.
-----------------------------------------------------


Perhaps it's not that these babies, children, and mothers died that bothers so many people. It's how they died.

We have become so sophisicated today that we think that criminal execution by firing squad is inhumane. If the ancients heard of this kind of criminal execution they would probably think of us as a bunch of sissies. Maybe we will one day even abandon lethal-injection as a method of execution because we see it as barbaric.
 
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[FONT=&quot]
Hosea 13:16 (New American Standard Bible)





16Samaria will be held guilty,
For she has rebelled against her God
They will fall by the sword,
Their little ones will be dashed in pieces,
And their pregnant women will be ripped open.
-----------------------------------------------------


Perhaps it's not that these babies, children, and mothers died that bothers so many people. It's how they died.

We have become so sophisticated today that we think that criminal execution by firing squad is inhumane. If the ancients heard of this kind of criminal execution they would probably think of us as a bunch of sissies. Maybe we will one day even abandon lethal-injection as a method of execution because we see it as barbaric.

The Scripture you quote is a Prophecy. From the prophet Hosea. It is not a description of what happened to the children of Egypt. On the night that this happened in Egypt they children went to sleep and died in their sleep as the Angel went through Egypt taking them.

The scripture you have quoted is still very graphical and disturbing. But it details the destruction of babylon. And that was not carried out by Israel .

All Praise The Ancient Of Days[/FONT]
 
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Merlin

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One of my big reasons on why I left the religon was when I saw how many people God killed in the Old Testament (the part that really gets to me is when he killed the frist born of Eygpt) I thought It was vary hypocritcal of him, that he tell us to forgive and love our enemys when he could not do the same. (I dont care if the hebrews were slaves back then, I do not belive in the killing of Childerin, for any reason)

But now I just relized something, If he is okeay with killing for his people and really loves us, how come he never killed Satan?

He okeay with killing childerin but not the fallen angel who caused all the problems in the frist place and is still trying to get to us?

I cound never answer these qustions and I need answers.

So why?

Satan is not alive in that way.
There is nothing to "kill"
 
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