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Kill The Future

Verv

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As time passes, the act of living is becoming more and more fluid and lucid; I am going through a series of motions and ups and downs, and everything seems to become more and more irrelevent.

Normally, whenever someone besides a 65 year old monk or a dead guy says the word 'zen' I want to vomit. Sometimes, while intoxicated, I can hear someone say the word zen and it does not sound absurd and over my head. But in a moment like this, I think I have slowly begun to understand the big words like 'zen' and 'tao,' but not in any way that one can put them into words; more along the line of... I feel an existence of as much. I feel there is a certain way of things, but I do not mean this in any way of understanding of it, but rather in the sense of understanding my own position. I am beginning to learn what it means when the ancients said,

Keep to simplicity,

Grasp the primal,

Reduce the self

And curb desire.

It sounds pretentious and sounds like it belongs on the backpack of a 23 year old college graduate who is making the world a better place by not eating meat. But I think it makes a lot of sense...

I have stopped wanting some things in my life, and I have stopped fearing certain repercussions; I am beginning to understand and come to peace with primal deficiencies, and I am trying to reduce myself to my urges... I cannot stress enough how utterly retarded I must sound to someone, a 21 year old white kid talking about 3,000 year old philosophies practiced by much more wiser fools,, but it registers with me on a level...

When I drink, when I eat, when I shower, when I exercise, when I walk below the beating sun on a hot day or hear the crunch of snow under my feet, when I am being yelled at or more embarassingly being publicly commended... Things are starting to break down.

I am becoming an Anarchist. But not in any sense is it a political or even moral step, but I am becoming an Anarchist out of necessity of understanding: I am breaking down structures and notions of authority in my head, and I am following the general flow of things.

I no longer care. I only desire to live and to be free, everything else is secondary. I no longer have illusions about who I am -- I do not kid myself so much, and I accept fact as fact.

I am trying to break things down more, and I do not think a lot of people fully understand what I mean unless I bring up the notion of Anarchist again.

I have spent my life inside of a system, evaluating where I stand and competing for recognitions and for honors, for promotions and pieces of paper noting qualifications... Now I have a general apathy. I am doing everything I can to avoid a system and to avoid these social circles, these series of printed papers and computer files that try to express your worth as a human. And I think I understand that the only things that matter are the base sensations of the positive that I can have -- the good sound, the good touch, the good sight, the good feeling. As men, to hope for anything more than the simple and primal feelings of goodness is foolish -- honor, wealth, these are all overvalued concepts that do not directly speak on the worth of the positive feelings.

Things need to be simple -- so simple that there is no system. One has to abandon systems and authorities perhaps to understand the nature of happiness.

I feel like giving up. By giving up I mean being a gas station attendant or a carpenter or a menial laborer, who works a daily schedule with nothing ever changing and never being promoted or elevated higher. I want to hold onto the spirit of life, enjoy the feelings of being alive, and to live completely in the moments I have. The way I get food and lodge is irrelevent.

I always remember one of the Koreans who was helping me learn back in California. I off-handedly asked, what is the most important thing I can learn from Buddhism? Mr. Na Geunyoung replied without thinking, simply, "to live in the moment."

It did not really make sense, and does not really register fully, but perhaps that is a lesson I can understand one day -- never in the context of Buddhism, being that this idea to me is not so interesting, but more in the context of living:

We have a past, but the past is not going to chain us or keep us down.

We have a future, but the future is not going to prevent us from enjoying the moment.

For now, I am tied up in a future and cannot live freely because of systems and authorities demandign from me.

In order for me to be free, I have to destroy my future. I have to destroy any system or authoritive figure that can dictate what I do in the moment.

Why?

Because it all comes back to the sensations of happiness and joy.

It all comes down to turning life into a fluid action of constant movement, like swimming in water, so that one is constantly exposed to the water that is the sensations.

The future threatens to pluck you out of your water, to interrupt your flows -- it is the future that must be destroyed.

Because of your future, you save money, you quit smoking, you quit drinking, you quit fighting and quit feeling and quit flirting with life. Because of your future, you live like a slave. I do not want to be a slave.

I do not want to have a future beyond the bottles of soju in the fridge or the friends I am going to see in a few hours or tomorrow, I only want to have a Now, a very real moment to live in and to learn from. I want to be surrounded in the Now, and I want everythin to exist as a fluid movement, never there is a future, just a simple series of steps being taken without pause in water -- a long, slow swim towards whatever happens when our brains no longer function.

I am a fish, and I can only live in water, I can only be in the sensations -- each moment I spend out of water is a moment close to death, a moment of suffocation.

I must be put into the water -- being plucked from it is as being slowly murdered.
 

DeepThinker

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I like this philosophy very similar to Diogenes who it is said discovered one day that the only way to fully be free it to detach himself completely from society, he never wanted for anything, picked apples when he was hungry slept when he was tired etc. Many people came to him for his wisdom, and it is said (though no one knows if there is truth to the statement) that once Alexander the great came to visit him, at the time this man had everything and after speaking with Diogenes (who was supposedly sat under a tree at the time) asked if there was anything that he could do to help the man, who lived much like a begger, Diogenes replied "yes, you can get out of my sun"

If you want to live your life like that thats fine by me. A true way to be a free spirit, I will say however that if everyone did this it would not work at all, but if you are a true beliver of the philosophy this should not bother you anyway.

Goodluck and God bless
 
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JGL53

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I don't know whether you are having a major existential crisis or what, but I do think that "questioning (all) authority" is an undervalued value. ;)

I have a quote (allegedly) from the Buddha pasted on my refrigerator door that I look at and reflect upon regularly:

"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it or who has said it, not even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense."

Not perfect advice in the 21st century with quantum mechanics, dark matter, and such, but still something to think about.

Thinking back to when I was your age, I remember a great deal of confusion about the "ultimate" issues of life and existence. The weird thing I've found is that you can never stop learning, unless you try really, really hard. :D

E.g., even ten years ago I could never imagine what the studying and understanding of eastern philosophy would mean to me today.

Per happenstance, I came across a book by philosopher Alan Watts about seven years ago and became fascinated with his interpretation of eastern philosophy, i.e., all forms of Buddhism, Taoism, and Hinduism (Vedanta). I've now read about three dozen books or collections of transcripts of his lectures, in addition to books by D.T. Suzuki, Stephen Batchelor, Steve Hagen, Lama Surya Das, and many others.

Even though, in western philosophical terms, I suppose I am still classifiable as an agnostic/atheist or scientific naturalist, my whole psychology has been changed by exposure to this decidedly different way of understanding (which actually results in a deeper experiential "understanding" than does our normal language and logic based idea of "academic" understanding.).

You've read the christian bible, right? Didn't seem to really help things much, huh? Didn't quite live up to all the claims?

Maybe you might consider broadening the scope of your reading material. I suggest starting with an Alan Watts book and go from there. You can get old paperbacks by him for next to nothing from amazon and many other places.

(And I don’t mean to imply you can learn all you need from books – it’s that you can eventually integrate insights gained by exposure to language-based concepts with your daily experience of life.)

Peace, etc.
 
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DeepThinker

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JGL53 said:
You've read the christian bible, right? Didn't seem to really help things much, huh? Didn't quite live up to all the claims?

Hehe doesnt mean its not a usefull book, though I agree that in a modern age it does have alot of holes, I belive we should read and discuss as much as you can, I did and came to think afterwards that actaully the Bible does make alot of sense but much of the ideas that I get from the holy book are not what most other Christians belive, I just think its been looked at far to literaly, but I wont go into that now, keep searching and follow your heart, if we all do that you cant go far wrong.
 
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JGL53

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DeepThinker said:
Hehe doesnt mean its not a usefull book, though I agree that in a modern age it does have alot of holes, I belive we should read and discuss as much as you can, I did and came to think afterwards that actaully the Bible does make alot of sense but much of the ideas that I get from the holy book are not what most other Christians belive, I just think its been looked at far to literaly, but I wont go into that now, keep searching and follow your heart, if we all do that you cant go far wrong.

So, then, you are moreso a "Jeffersonian" regarding the bible?

That's cool. Heck, if we would all agree to let Thomas Jefferson define "true" christianity, then I too would be a christian (Heck, maybe even a preacher - I do like to talk.) ;)
 
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D

DharmaBum

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jmverville said:
As time passes, the act of living is becoming more and more fluid and lucid; I am going through a series of motions and ups and downs, and everything seems to become more and more irrelevent.

Normally, whenever someone besides a 65 year old monk or a dead guy says the word 'zen' I want to vomit. Sometimes, while intoxicated, I can hear someone say the word zen and it does not sound absurd and over my head. But in a moment like this, I think I have slowly begun to understand the big words like 'zen' and 'tao,' but not in any way that one can put them into words; more along the line of... I feel an existence of as much. I feel there is a certain way of things, but I do not mean this in any way of understanding of it, but rather in the sense of understanding my own position. I am beginning to learn what it means when the ancients said,

Keep to simplicity,

Grasp the primal,

Reduce the self

And curb desire.

It sounds pretentious and sounds like it belongs on the backpack of a 23 year old college graduate who is making the world a better place by not eating meat. But I think it makes a lot of sense...

I have stopped wanting some things in my life, and I have stopped fearing certain repercussions; I am beginning to understand and come to peace with primal deficiencies, and I am trying to reduce myself to my urges... I cannot stress enough how utterly retarded I must sound to someone, a 21 year old white kid talking about 3,000 year old philosophies practiced by much more wiser fools,, but it registers with me on a level...

When I drink, when I eat, when I shower, when I exercise, when I walk below the beating sun on a hot day or hear the crunch of snow under my feet, when I am being yelled at or more embarassingly being publicly commended... Things are starting to break down.

I am becoming an Anarchist. But not in any sense is it a political or even moral step, but I am becoming an Anarchist out of necessity of understanding: I am breaking down structures and notions of authority in my head, and I am following the general flow of things.

I no longer care. I only desire to live and to be free, everything else is secondary. I no longer have illusions about who I am -- I do not kid myself so much, and I accept fact as fact.

I am trying to break things down more, and I do not think a lot of people fully understand what I mean unless I bring up the notion of Anarchist again.

I have spent my life inside of a system, evaluating where I stand and competing for recognitions and for honors, for promotions and pieces of paper noting qualifications... Now I have a general apathy. I am doing everything I can to avoid a system and to avoid these social circles, these series of printed papers and computer files that try to express your worth as a human. And I think I understand that the only things that matter are the base sensations of the positive that I can have -- the good sound, the good touch, the good sight, the good feeling. As men, to hope for anything more than the simple and primal feelings of goodness is foolish -- honor, wealth, these are all overvalued concepts that do not directly speak on the worth of the positive feelings.

Things need to be simple -- so simple that there is no system. One has to abandon systems and authorities perhaps to understand the nature of happiness.

I feel like giving up. By giving up I mean being a gas station attendant or a carpenter or a menial laborer, who works a daily schedule with nothing ever changing and never being promoted or elevated higher. I want to hold onto the spirit of life, enjoy the feelings of being alive, and to live completely in the moments I have. The way I get food and lodge is irrelevent.

I always remember one of the Koreans who was helping me learn back in California. I off-handedly asked, what is the most important thing I can learn from Buddhism? Mr. Na Geunyoung replied without thinking, simply, "to live in the moment."

It did not really make sense, and does not really register fully, but perhaps that is a lesson I can understand one day -- never in the context of Buddhism, being that this idea to me is not so interesting, but more in the context of living:

We have a past, but the past is not going to chain us or keep us down.

We have a future, but the future is not going to prevent us from enjoying the moment.

For now, I am tied up in a future and cannot live freely because of systems and authorities demandign from me.

In order for me to be free, I have to destroy my future. I have to destroy any system or authoritive figure that can dictate what I do in the moment.

Why?

Because it all comes back to the sensations of happiness and joy.

It all comes down to turning life into a fluid action of constant movement, like swimming in water, so that one is constantly exposed to the water that is the sensations.

The future threatens to pluck you out of your water, to interrupt your flows -- it is the future that must be destroyed.

Because of your future, you save money, you quit smoking, you quit drinking, you quit fighting and quit feeling and quit flirting with life. Because of your future, you live like a slave. I do not want to be a slave.

I do not want to have a future beyond the bottles of soju in the fridge or the friends I am going to see in a few hours or tomorrow, I only want to have a Now, a very real moment to live in and to learn from. I want to be surrounded in the Now, and I want everythin to exist as a fluid movement, never there is a future, just a simple series of steps being taken without pause in water -- a long, slow swim towards whatever happens when our brains no longer function.

I am a fish, and I can only live in water, I can only be in the sensations -- each moment I spend out of water is a moment close to death, a moment of suffocation.

I must be put into the water -- being plucked from it is as being slowly murdered.

For a pentecostal that was very ZEN.;)
 
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DeepThinker

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ApocryphaNow said:
I don't think a lot of hippies understood that book at all.

Alot of hippies dont understand anything depending on what they might have been taking at the time ;)

Its ok im alowed to critise my girlfriend is a hippy and apparently I'm one coming out of the closet
 
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ApocryphaNow

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DeepThinker said:
Alot of hippies dont understand anything depending on what they might have been taking at the time ;)

Its ok im alowed to critise my girlfriend is a hippy and apparently I'm one coming out of the closet

Haha, I suppose there are "good" hippies and "scene" hippies (and then there are "dirty" hippies and "empty-headed" hippies). In any case, I know what you mean. I've been "experimenting".
 
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DeepThinker

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JGL53 said:
So, then, you are moreso a "Jeffersonian" regarding the bible?

That's cool. Heck, if we would all agree to let Thomas Jefferson define "true" christianity, then I too would be a christian (Heck, maybe even a preacher - I do like to talk.) ;)

Oh I think I'm about to be labled as a very stupid person but I'm unlearned in Thomas Jefferson so I could not comment. :blush:
Please do not punish me to harshly I promise to go read up.
 
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JGL53

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DeepThinker said:
Oh I think I'm about to be labled as a very stupid person but I'm unlearned in Thomas Jefferson so I could not comment. :blush:
Please do not punish me to harshly I promise to go read up.

I was referring to the Jeffersonian bible. See:

http://www.angelfire.com/co/JeffersonBible/

If you are interesting in just learning more about Thomas Jefferson and his religious/political views in general, this site seems to be quite comprehensive:

http://www.angelfire.com/co/JeffersonBible/

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7842/archives/

 
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Verv

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Thank you for the book recommendations (esp JGL). I do not think of the Bible as inadequate, but I simply feel that there is a lot that was not put into it -- and that if we are to understand spiritual connection with God better, we need to find a way to cut through a lot of the hypocrisy and materialism of the modern world.

It must have been a lot easier when your life consisted of a hut, a plow, and a field. Now it consists of a thousand corrupting forces that make everything more complicated and less simple, make everything far more distracting.

I think part of the way to doing this is to give it all up.

BTW, the comparison to diogenes is very good -- I have learned about him a bit. However, I am not a cynicist.

I want to study Eastern philosophy more, and come to greater understanding and cut away from myself a lot of the corrupting influences -- they can interfere with a relationship to God, and for me, much of this relationship is dictated through connection with self and nature -- for man is creatd in the image of God, and certainly not in a physical sense necessarily, but by understanding our true selves better we understand God and His word better.
 
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DeepThinker

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jmverville said:
Thank you for the book recommendations (esp JGL). I do not think of the Bible as inadequate, but I simply feel that there is a lot that was not put into it -- and that if we are to understand spiritual connection with God better, we need to find a way to cut through a lot of the hypocrisy and materialism of the modern world.

It must have been a lot easier when your life consisted of a hut, a plow, and a field. Now it consists of a thousand corrupting forces that make everything more complicated and less simple, make everything far more distracting.

I think part of the way to doing this is to give it all up.

BTW, the comparison to diogenes is very good -- I have learned about him a bit. However, I am not a cynicist.

I want to study Eastern philosophy more, and come to greater understanding and cut away from myself a lot of the corrupting influences -- they can interfere with a relationship to God, and for me, much of this relationship is dictated through connection with self and nature -- for man is creatd in the image of God, and certainly not in a physical sense necessarily, but by understanding our true selves better we understand God and His word better.


You obviously have good reasons to stand by your views and for that you get my upmost respect, to me I dont mind what people belive, as long as they know why they belive it.
Keep searching
 
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