Lol yeah I am a bit dyslexic.
People still punish bad behavior.
Not consistently or with any great consequence. I think its widely acknowledged that dicipline in schools has been slipping for a while and that punishment in the Justice system at least for young people has become quite lenient. The definition of what is classed as bad has changed and it allows more behaviour that we once thought was morally wrong.
Rights aren’t subjective.
Rights themselves are not subjective but what qualifies as being something worth protecting to apply those Rights to is the subjective part. Some may say access to drugs is a human Right as it makes them happy, relieves the suffering they experience. Some may say polygamy is a human Right as not allowing this denies a persons religious or sexual relationship status.
So just because something is said to be a Right doesn't make it right. Its only a subjective feeling, belief or preference if you support subjective morality. Theres nothing truthful beyond the subject like a law of nature for example.
Rules still exist. Parents still enforce them.
Yeah theres still rules and laws and norms though norms have changed a lot and they are really the underlying driving force for rules and laws. But like I said the rules and punishment have weakened in some areas especially when it comes to kids and adolescents.
I think theres a general instability or maybe lack of direction as to what we should and shouldn't do, whats best behaviour and whats not. Thats because I think as a society we have no moral basis everything is up to individual and group beliefs, preferences and feelings.
And there’s a distinct irony of the “back in my day we spanked and punished and our kids turned out fine” but then also looking at those kids who are now parents and saying “they aren’t effective parents.”
So which is it? They turned out fine or they’re not great parents?
So it sounds like your generation just wants to hear they were great parents and had it all figured out. Don’t use the past as an example of fault, move on with your life and don’t dwell, but do acknowledge how back in my day kids had respect for authority and were better behaved and the world was better for it.
That inherently is the problem with the whole “back in my day” argument. You say everybody turned out great, society is better, kids were better, then you see those kids as adults and parents who opt to not do something because of how it negatively impacted them, then you cry about how adults these days are lost and yielding lost children.
This is the generation of parents you raised. You want the parade for what you think you did right, but not the criticism for what you didn’t.
Actually I am not saying that so you must have misunderstood what I meant. Its not a generational thing as far as which generation is better at bringing up kids. Both generations have made mistakes. I am actually saying the overuse of corporal punishment was abusive so that cannot be good but also as a reaction against those abuses society went to the other extreme of watering down punishment and the consequences for misbehaviour.
Its not so much what any generation believes as each generation will have their own relative views on whats right as time goes by or compared to the past. But rather I am talking about a truth principle about crime and punishment that the West has lived by for millenia. The idea that the law had authority, that there were consequences for bad behaviour, that people respected parents authority. These are all principles and not something relative to a generation or culture. They stand independent like a law of nature.
Word salad. Ideologies have always been a part of society.
Yes but we don't want our society to be ruled by one ideology being enforced on the many as is happening today. Being pushed into our institutions, families and private lives, these should be free from ideology.
'where art thou'.
Nobody is saying you can’t feel that way. You can feel whatever way you want. When people say “feelings are valid,” they’re not saying that the feeling you have is right and unchallangable, they’re saying they’re inevitable.
That still means when people try to say “poor men, we have it so hard these days because we’re now not regarded as a plane above like we were in the past and that makes it difficult,” people can (and should) say “get over yourself, you aren’t a victim.”
So what about when they are not complaining but actually expressing real disadvantage. How would you tell the difference. Or do you assume that all male expressions of suffering are complaints about losing their past status. I would have thought we were way past that stage seeming womens rights have been going for 50 plus years now.
At what point do men become a victim or can't they ever qualify because they are men. Maybe thats the problem that the same stereotyping is now happening to them and many are not recognising it. If we are to have equality then that means equality for both males and females and not focusing more on one group than others.
Focus on traumatized boys critical to gender equality, research shows
The study in the Journal of Adolescent Health, along with similar new research, suggests an adequate focus on helping boys is critical to achieving gender equality in the longer term.
The report points out that boys and men are frequently overlooked in the equality equation. “We cannot achieve a gender-equitable world by ignoring half of its occupants,” the report states. “It is crucial that boys and men be included in efforts to promote gender equality and empowerment.”
Focus on traumatized boys critical to gender equality, research shows - Men's Rights Agency
Gender Inequality Harms Not Only Women And Girls, But Also Men And Boys
Boys were more likely than girls to report adversity including physical neglect, sexual abuse and violence victimization. Moreover, boys facing adversity were 11 times more likely to be engaged in violence, compared to four times among girls. The report proposes that a more inclusive approach to measurement is required to ensure that gender equality can be attained by 2030. The recognition that gender inequality harms all genders is an important one, but it requires a mindset shift, or even a generational shift.
Gender Inequality Harms Not Only Women And Girls, But Also Men And Boys
So do these boys and men qualify as victims.
White men are not victims in current society and have not been victims in past society. And if you’re still stewing on the cultural revolution of the 60s and 70s where people pushed for women and minorities representation and rights, you need to join the now.
Despite mentioning men as victims above to show anyone can play the victim game I don't like the idea of victims and oppressors as it end up a competition as to who is the biggest and least victim. Like males are seen as unworthy on the victim eligibility scale and white males are even lower. Its a stereotypical and divisive way to see the world.
I was referring to the cultural revolutions and how they have influenced todays thinking the "now" thinking. This is important to understand if you want a more complete perspective on why we think and behave the way we do today.
So what you’re saying is that without that intrinsic leg up that they’ve come to rely on for literal generations, men are less educated, less competitive in jobs, more likely to be criminals, more unfit parents, and struggle mentally.
No I am saying the measures taken to make society more equal, to make women more equal as well has changed society in many ways perhaps too much so to the point men are beginning to fall behind. Of course there are other factors like work is less labor intensive which is more about the natural evolution of society and other environmental influences.
But that should not deter society from identifying the disadvantages that have occured for boys and males no matter what the cause. We should be acknowledges all disadvantages regardless of gender if we want a truely equal and fair society.
I mentioned these recent changes don't just effect males but also they are setting womens rights backwards in some ways as well. This ideology that has swept modern society is not good for anyone. Its creating hate between genders and other identity groups and is very divisive.
Sounds like men are fairly weak and didn’t deserve that leg up to begin with and the whole “men run things because they’re men” model is garbage to begin with as they are an unstable lot.
Sounds like you don't like men.
Sorry not sorry, but I don’t feel bad at all for men who are upset that education represents all genders and minorities, not just white men.
The point was that education is not representing everyone equal. Not at least by the trending results we are seeing which is showing females outperforming males. Where in some areas like degrees white males are actually falling below other minorities like Asians.
The point is regardless of blame any inequality should be a concern even white males disadvantage. Like I said when do males qualify as a disadvantaged group, when the disadvantage becomes greater. How great does it have to become before its acknowledged as a problem we have to address.
I don’t feel bad that you now have to compete with women in the workplace to advance. You can regurgitate all the carefully cultivated statistics you want, but you’re just bitter that in generations past things were handed to men by virtue of the fact that they have penises and now they have to work like everybody else to succeed in life.
No I acknowledge this, its a well recognised fact that males had advantage. Not all was because they were evil oppressors of women though. For example there was a time when most work was labor intensive which suited males more so they ended up do,onating the work hierarchy.
That was just a reality of how life was then. In fact for much of our history both males and females were disadvantaged as most people lived in adject poverty and died young from disease. It was a struggle to even put food on the table let alone who had the right to work. BUt yes men then exploited their position by then denying women access.
No one is denying the bad stuff men done in taking advantage of their position and abusing women. All I am doing is arguing that a fair and equal society should consider all people regardless of group identity. That is the most fair and consistent way to generate equality. Not to focus or some and not others because of some subjective assumption that they are not worthy. All are worthy being made in Gods image.
Men are not victims. Some of them very desperately want to be victims because they want pity and feel that pity gives them power, but that doesn’t make them victims. It’s a joke to claim men are marginalized victims and it’s completely impossible to take anybody who says such a thing seriously. It shows such a lack of knowledge and demonstrates innate, learned biases that are, thankfully, becoming artifacts. The sputtering last words of the “back in my day” generation as they die off or fade into irrelevance. An irrelevance they chose to embrace.
Hum, like I said I don't like the idea of playing victim games based on a subjective belief or idea about which identity groups are worthy or not.
