Kentucky Bill Would Mandate Ultrasounds Before Abortions

[Johnboy60]

Frankfort, KY (AHN) - A new bill in Kentucky says pregnant women would have to undergo an ultrasound before they are allowed to obtain an abortion. Doctors would be required to show the ultrasound images and explain the results to the pregnant mother.

"I want to make sure women understand fully what is happening if they get an opportunity to see the little fingers and toes of the baby that they're thinking about aborting," state Sen. Jack Westwood, (R-Crescent Springs), an anti-abortion lawmaker who sponsored the bill, told WLKY. "I want them to make informed choices."

http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7009763053

 

[revolutio]

Mandatory appeals to emotion. Next up: mandatory ad hominem.

 

[imind]

Mandatory appeals to emotion.

yup. this has nothing to do with 'informed choices'.

wonder how consevatives will respond to this govt intrusion?

 

[Trevorocity]

yup. this has nothing to do with 'informed choices'.

wonder how consevatives will respond to this govt intrusion?

Indeed. You can afterall refuse to submit to any medical procedure. I once watched a man refuse to be treated for a heart attack walk out of the Emergency Room and drop dead in the lobby. Stupid stubborn man but it was his Constitutional right. Forcing him to accept treatment would have been wrong.

 

[fanatiquefou]

"I want to make sure women understand fully what is happening if they get an opportunity to see the little fingers and toes of the baby that they're thinking about aborting," state Sen. Jack Westwood, (R-Crescent Springs), an anti-abortion lawmaker who sponsored the bill, told WLKY. "I want them to make informed choices."

Right. Because women are stupid. When they go to get an abortion, they actually have NO IDEA that they're getting an abortion. Senator Westwood, please shut up now.

 

[flicka]

Most won't see anything much on an ultrasound, especially in the early weeks. When I had my kids I even had trouble seeing anything when they were months along...it all depends on their position.And can you actually force someone to look at a screen? Who will pay? So many questions. But I'm all about being informed so i can't say for certain it's a bad idea.

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

I have friends that looked at the ultrasound and still aborted.Some people have know way out of abortions.

 

[SpiritualAntiseptic]

Mandatory appeals to emotion. Next up: mandatory ad hominem.

All this is doing is showing exactly what is going on- this is being more informed about the procedure. You can't really appeal to emotion- you invoke memories, beliefs or ideas that the person has associated with particular emotions.

If someone shows me kids starving in a third world country- it isn't an appeal to emotion. It is an appeal to a belief I already have about starving children. That belief is associated with emotions. If I don't care about starving children- it does stir any emotions- only belief can do that.

If these women change their mind based on the ultrasound- it isn't an appeal to an emotion. It merely invokes whatever beliefs they have about killing a person with a beating heart. For example, the abortionist wouldn't be bothered by it because they have no moral issue with their profession.

What this does is keep abortion clinics from lying to their clients about what is really going on. "It is just a piece of tissue" they say. If that's all it is, then abortion advocates shouldn't have an issue with it. I wouldn't mind having to see an ultrasound of something in my body before it is removed. If this was a hospital making it a procedure that all patients who are getting a tumor removed, some tissue or their fat- no one would think anything of it. It is the fact that people are going to know what is really going on that concerns people. They're afraid people will have a hard time denying their internal beliefs about human life.

 

[SpiritualAntiseptic]

Right. Because women are stupid. When they go to get an abortion, they actually have NO IDEA that they're getting an abortion. Senator Westwood, please shut up now.

Women are aware of the fact they are getting an abortion- what they don't know is exactly what is going on.

If I was at the hospital and the doctor was talking about me getting surgery I wouldn't blink if he refused to go forward with the procedure until I was informed about what was going on so I could make my own decision. When you break a bone, the doctor will go right up to you with the x-ray and show you what he'll be doing. It is the same thing with any of part of the body they can get an image of.

I can't really understand why anyone would take an issue with someone needing to be informed. I think deep down, a lot of people know abortion is immoral and have done a lot of rationalizing to justify it. People are bound to get upset if they hear someone might actually have to know what's going on- and fear they won't be able to justify what they are doing anymore.

Man's greatest sins involved the dehumanizing of people. Those that do the dehumanizing of slaves, for example, are bound to feel threatened if someone were to humanize them.

 

[clarksided]

Seems like a mighty big waste of government money to me. Fortunately, I do not live in Kentucky.

 

[fanatiquefou]

All this is doing is showing exactly what is going on- this is being more informed about the procedure. You can't really appeal to emotion- you invoke memories, beliefs or ideas that the person has associated with particular emotions.

If someone shows me kids starving in a third world country- it isn't an appeal to emotion. It is an appeal to a belief I already have about starving children. That belief is associated with emotions. If I don't care about starving children- it does stir any emotions- only belief can do that.

If these women change their mind based on the ultrasound- it isn't an appeal to an emotion. It merely invokes whatever beliefs they have about killing a person with a beating heart. For example, the abortionist wouldn't be bothered by it because they have no moral issue with their profession.

What this does is keep abortion clinics from lying to their clients about what is really going on. "It is just a piece of tissue" they say. If that's all it is, then abortion advocates shouldn't have an issue with it. I wouldn't mind having to see an ultrasound of something in my body before it is removed. If this was a hospital making it a procedure that all patients who are getting a tumor removed, some tissue or their fat- no one would think anything of it. It is the fact that people are going to know what is really going on that concerns people. They're afraid people will have a hard time denying their internal beliefs about human life.

It's also forcing women to get an additional and unnecessary medical procedure. Besides which, at the stages during which most women get abortions (first trimester), there won't be anything for them to see on the ultrasound anyway!

 

[fanatiquefou]

Women are aware of the fact they are getting an abortion- what they don't know is exactly what is going on.

And how, may I ask, do you know that they don't know exactly what is going on? I'm so sick of people assuming that women just don't know what's best for them and haven't already considered all options.

 

[Chajara]

It's also forcing women to get an additional and unnecessary medical procedure. Besides which, at the stages during which most women get abortions (first trimester), there won't be anything for them to see on the ultrasound anyway!

I'll go ahead and confirm this. When I had mine, they showed me the ultrasound and all I saw was a black oval with a tiny white dot at the bottom. I blinked, squinted, and went "What? That's it?" The nurse shrugged and walked off, and that was that.

Now that I look back on it I desperately wish I had demanded to keep those ultrasounds, but at the time I was too sick and terrified to think of anything other than not being pregnant anymore. :/

Edit: Quoted wrong post

 

[SpiritualAntiseptic]

It's also forcing women to get an additional and unnecessary medical procedure. Besides which, at the stages during which most women get abortions (first trimester), there won't be anything for them to see on the ultrasound anyway!

It's an ultrasound. It's less of a 'medical procedure' than the x-rays you get at the dentist or when the doctor checks your heart rate.

 

[SpiritualAntiseptic]

And how, may I ask, do you know that they don't know exactly what is going on? I'm so sick of people assuming that women just don't know what's best for them and haven't already considered all options.

From women who get abortions. I'm sure women consider what is best for them without always considering the life inside.

When I got a cavity, the dentist showed me the x-ray and said exactly what he was doing. That's far less of a procedure than an abortion. And again, it's not surprising, the pro-choice movement is based on the belief that the fetus is not a human being. It's no wonder people might object to something that adds information. When you buy cigarettes, the government gives information that might keep people from engaging in it. The tobacco companies would obviously prefer people be kept in the dark.

 

[fanatiquefou]

It's an ultrasound. It's less of a 'medical procedure' than the x-rays you get at the dentist or when the doctor checks your heart rate.

It's still an unnecessary procedure that should be undergone electively, not forced upon women.

 

[SpiritualAntiseptic]

It's still an unnecessary procedure that should be undergone electively, not forced upon women.

I guess we should make cigarettes or alcohol come with the optional warning label. In any medical procedure scans are taken and patients and shown what's going on.

Most doctors would refuse to let a parent take their daughter in for some kind of surgery and allow the girl to make the decision without knowing exactly what was going on. But that's exactly what abortion proponents want. Everyone should be informed about what is going on. An ultrasound doesn't cause any stress or problems- it is as invasive as a stethoscope or tongue supressor. Everyone knows it- but some people just want others to be kept in the dark to maintain the belief that another life isn't involved.

 

[MrJim]

christianforums.com Message
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to SpiritualAntiseptic again.

 

[imind]

oh please. any 'scans' that are done are done for the need of the doctor, and are shown as a courtesy to the patient.

this is an appeal to emotion, its forcing an unnecessary procedure, serves no medical purpose, and is an intrusion by government.

 

[Silent Enigma]

The bill sounds like a good idea to me. What's the harm in being more informed, I say.