Kansas to criminalize sex education...

[Metal Minister]

Great, you do know it's the states without a comprehensive sex ed curriculum that have the problems right?

Ha! That's a good one! Try telling that to my home state of New York!

 

[MachZer0]

Not really if someone want an abortion bad enough, they will do it themselves. The news said someone discarded two dead fetus in the street on Jan 5, 2015 . I'm sure someone found a cheaper way of aborting. Maybe teaching kids about birth control and teach them how to get them will be a better solution.

No problem. Simply criminalize self abortions as we should anyway

 

[Paulos23]

The solution to that is for the state to stop paying for it. Problem solved

Don't you want to help those that can be helped? Or does everyone have to be on their own with no help?

Just a little bit of knowlage and some expensive mistakes can be avoided. And your answer is to not just eliminate the class from school, but to eliminate the programs to help them if they make a mistake?

Your a cold one.

 

[MachZer0]

Don't you want to help those that can be helped? Or does everyone have to be on their own with no help?

Just a little bit of knowlage and some expensive mistakes can be avoided. And your answer is to not just eliminate the class from school, but to eliminate the programs to help them if they make a mistake?

Your a cold one.

Expensive mistakes should incur expenses for the person making the mistake

 

[loveofourlord]

Ha! That's a good one! Try telling that to my home state of New York!

You mean the state with the 8th lowest teen pregnancy rate?

 

[SepiaAndDust]

You mean the state with the 8th lowest teen pregnancy rate?

I think that'd be the one!

 

[loveofourlord]

I think that'd be the one!

okay to be fair charts online are all over the place on where new york sits :> But what they all seem to agree the bible belt has the states with the highest teen pregnancy rates, so one state outlier doesn't make the statement wrong. it is long been known that abstinence only states have the highest STD and teen pregnancy rates in the country doubling or trippling the lowest.

 

[SepiaAndDust]

okay to be fair charts online are all over the place on where new york sits :> But what they all seem to agree the bible belt has the states with the highest teen pregnancy rates, so one state outlier doesn't make the statement wrong. it is long been known that abstinence only states have the highest STD and teen pregnancy rates in the country doubling or trippling the lowest.

Using Table 12 from the National Vital Statistics Report by the CDC, New York's birth rate for 15- to 17-year-olds is astonishingly low. (PDF warning)

 

[Inkachu]

When I was in school, elementary was K-5, and middle school was 6-8. The kids in my 5th grade class were 10 going on 11; I turned 11 one month into the school year (October). 9 years old is more typically 3rd grade age.

Is this REALLY something to be debating??

 

[MachZer0]

Using Table 12 from the National Vital Statistics Report by the CDC, New York's birth rates for 15- to 17-year-olds is astonishingly low. (PDF warning)

Birth rates for teens and teen pregnancies are not the same thing. A girl who gets pregnant and gets an abortion should be included in the teen pregnancy rate, but cannot be considered in the teen birth rate. So how do we know whether or not New York's, or any state's for that matter, teen pregnancies are not counted because the girls are getting abortions

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

No problem. Simply criminalize self abortions as we should anyway

They still haven't they mother of the fetus. But isn't it a better idea for teens to learn about birth control and use it, then to hide or kill their un wanted baby.

 

[SepiaAndDust]

No problem. Simply criminalize self abortions as we should anyway

This isn't an abortion thread.

Birth rates for teens and teen pregnancies are not the same thing. A girl who gets pregnant and gets an abortion should be included in the teen pregnancy rate, but cannot be considered in the teen birth rate. So how do we know whether or not New York's, or any state's for that matter, teen pregnancies are not counted because the girls are getting abortions

This still isn't an abortion thread.

 

[Cearbhall]

Home schooling. If you know the teacher will show such thing, then you should do what you can to stop your child from being exposed to it. It is called being a responsible parent.

Ugh. I had a friend in high school who had been home-schooled up to that point, partly for that reason. She found out how babies are made at the age of 16. It was quite traumatic for her.

 

[Inkachu]

So if the exact same question is posed then why do you (I presume here) support DARE but not sex ED? Why is information and understanding appropriate in one context but not the other?

Because drugs are illegal and harmful. Again, I am not "against" sex ed, I am FOR sex ed being taught by PARENTS and not THE GOVERNMENT. Government-supplied sex ed should be a supplemental, fall-back program for kids who haven't been taught at home. It should not be the first or foremost place for children to learn about sexuality or reproduction. And I totally think parents have just as much responsibility to be teaching their children everything DARE teaches; from "stranger danger" to avoiding drugs.

No. Nor will I as I have been fixed.

OK. Do you work around kids at all? Do you think you have a firsthand perspective of what we're talking about, in other words, besides your own childhood? I must say that my own childhood was nothing like the childhood my son has had.

I agree they should begin there. But I do not have an issue with them being discussed in school.

I know And they are discussed in school.

I believe there is data that would support that but I do not have it on hand nor do I know where I would locate it.

I appreciate the honesty.

And I think your goal is admirable. I don't think changing sex ed would have any effect that would help your goal. Changing sex ed will not help parents become more responsible.

I disagree. I think if educators reached out more to parents, we could see some positive changes. Sadly, I have very, very few teachers at my son's school who have ever reached out to me and my husband as parents, and tried to involve us. It's always been us reaching out to them. And they're almost always surprised, and have even told us that involved parents are virtually unheard of anymore.

I believe the statement should be "This is what some people do". Do you know for a fact that people are stating it in any other fashion and how widespread is it?

If you tell a 10 year old child "some people do this" without any sort of caveat on the end, do you think the child will assume that it's a normal and acceptable behavior? Of course they will, unless you tell them otherwise. Again, there is NO REASON for a child of 10 or 11 or 12 to even know what anal sex is!

I'm not buying that one. They might accept some of it but I doubt they accept everything they are taught.

On some level, it's going to depend on what age group you're dealing with. Obviously a bunch of high school seniors are going to have a lot more capacity for independent reasoning than a 10 year old.

 

[Inkachu]

What counts as offensive? Did you see the poster that started this all? If thats the kind of thing that creates this bill just imagine what they find offensive? A drawing or picture showing your genintals both male and female? Showing the proper usage of a condom?

Yes, I saw the poster. It's offensive to suggest that a middle schooler needs to know how to "express their feelings" by touching another child's genitals or having anal sex. If two 13 year old students were caught having sex at school, there'd be an uproar. Yet we present sexually graphic information to them and never tell them not to do it. Oh, they'll add in a comment at the end that says "don't do this until you feel you're ready". How many middle schoolers are able to chaperone themselves when given access to such adult information? Would you leave your child alone with a case of beer? Would you give them the keys to your car? Of course not, but we'll tell them allll the various ways that people have sex (knowing some of them are controversial and may be completely contrary to their family's personal beliefs), and never tell them not to do it, and then expect them to not do it.

These are the kids that I see every day in my workplace; teen mothers and fathers. Oh, they've been through sex ed. They've had access to free condoms and birth control pills. They've been counseled by the STD workers on how to have "safe" sex. Yet here they come, day after day, more and more of them. Because despite all the "tools" presented to them by society, nobody ever bothered to tell them not to have sex.

 

[SepiaAndDust]

Because drugs are illegal and harmful. Again, I am not "against" sex ed, I am FOR sex ed being taught by PARENTS and not THE GOVERNMENT.

Just pointing out that schoolteachers are not the government. They're just regular Joes with regular jobs. They like football and porno and books about war....

My point is, the person teaching sex-ed is just a person, with life experience, education, and probably kids of their own, and not some government drone in lock-step with whatever administration happens to be current.

 

[Inkachu]

She's already said she thinks it should be delayed all the way until high school. Never mind that most girls have already started their periods long before freshman year (I started in 5th grade), boys are already having wet dreams, having their voices change... puberty has been and gone by the time they are in 9th grade.

I don't know what kind of kids you spend your time around, but according to medicine.net, the average age of puberty is 12 for girls and 14 for boys. That would be 6th-8th grade. That's when it BEGINS. And it lasts from 2-5 years, so by the time it's "been and gone" as you put it, the kids are 14 to 19 years old on average.

I started my period in 5th grade, too. And guess what? My mom had prepared me for it. She helped me deal with it. There was sex ed at my middle school, and somehow, the boys and girls all turned out just fine.

Any kid who has a concern about their health or development should feel free to visit the school nurse or guidance counselor. Who should direct them back to their parent or guardian, and work together as a team to make sure the questions get answered.

 

[Inkachu]

If you are referring to reproduction as in what happens after intercourse, they also teach about it in high school biology class, at least they did when I was taking that class 25 years ago. Will you be expecting a parental permission slip then, too?

Try talking to me without the snark and I might consider answering you.

 

[Cearbhall]

Because drugs are illegal and harmful. Again, I am not "against" sex ed, I am FOR sex ed being taught by PARENTS and not THE GOVERNMENT. Government-supplied sex ed should be a supplemental, fall-back program for kids who haven't been taught at home. It should not be the first or foremost place for children to learn about sexuality or reproduction.

I understand that from a religious perspective, sex may be something uniquely reverent that should be not discussed with children in the public sphere. However, looking at it from a secular standpoint, which is the view that public schools are obligated to take, I personally don't see the difference between sex education and anatomy, math, or history. Sexual responsibility is part of being a good citizen and leading a healthy, productive life. I can't bring myself to agree that religious preferences should outweigh the need for all children to receive this information when we're talking about government-run schools.

Public education exists because many parents will not educate their children otherwise, and many of the rest do not possess all of the knowledge that their children need to know. This holds true for sex education. You could also argue that public schools should not be providing food or transportation, since that's supposed to be the parents' job.

 

[Inkachu]

Who is teaching 10 year olds that? Do you even KNOW what the sex ed course is? It starts at younger grades telling kids that there are boys and girls, telling them the bare minimm, it's not even till much later that they are taught other things.

Did you even read the article? This is material being used in a middle school; middle schoolers are typically aged 10-14. So yes, this is being taught to young children, it's not being taught "much later" as you seem to wish to believe.