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Albion

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True...... but at the highest levels apparently a twist is put on scripture that leaves a high level Mason with a very different view of everything that Jesus said.
Tell us all about it, then.

I have read a hundred claims about the secret doings and etc. that supposedly exist at some imaginary higher level of Masonry...and I have found that, on examination, none of them holds up.

For example.... read about the teachings of Thomas Malthus on how he justified going directly against the teachings of Jesus regarding feeding and helping the poor.

Malthusian catastrophe - Wikipedia

What would that have to do with Masonry?
 
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DennisTate

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I have not yet bothered with any sort of indepth study on Masonry but if you take a look at the ideas on economics of Thomas Malthus he basically attempted to negate the teaching of Jesus regarding the poor by saying that if the aristocrats of England treat the poor too well...... they will only overpopulate and cause an eventual famine, pestilence or warfare.... a Malthusian Disaster.

Now I have to admit that he would be well versed in many of the pagan traditions that the British Empire would confront as it expanded around the world so there is logic in his ideas but...... he still comes up with reasoning that teaches that the teachings of Jesus are naive and incorrect and that the aristocrats must go to a higher level of wisdom and understanding than a simple reading of the gospels would imply.

On at least one level.. .I have to admit that the Bible needs to be looked at on a deeper level than the usual.

Sabbath observance under extreme conditions....

 
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Albion

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Okay, but what does that have to do with Masonry?
 
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DennisTate

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Okay, but what does that have to do with Masonry?

You will have to do your research to answer that yourself but this may help:

Pray for Messiah Yeshua - Jesus to open your mind and heart...... and do your research.......
and see if you begin to look at this differently?


We must repent for what is going on UNDER our land!




How much longer will growth of Antarcic ice save our coastlands?

 
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DennisTate

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Well, I have done so. That's why I noticed that the contents of that post had nothing to do with Freemasonry.

We are all only human......
we all have some biases... and low level
Masonic practices and teachings are very different than the
Masonic teachings at the very highest levels.

And for the record...... I am not saying that they are one hundred percent incorrect in their ideas either but................
each of us has a responsibility to use the metaphorical Sword..... the Bible.... accurately..... which can be challenging?????

Could Satan to some degree be like Stanley Milgram Ph.D?


One implication of all this is that Satan may ADMIRE Mr. John Ramirez........ and hold his most obedient followers in CONTEMPT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?????

 
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Albion

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We are all only human......
we all have some biases... and low level
Masonic practices and teachings are very different than the
Masonic teachings at the very highest levels.
The "highest level" is the third degree, which is what almost every Mason is. I don't want to jump down your throat about his, but it really is wrong to just repeat what is printed in some conspiracy theory website.
 
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DennisTate

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The "highest level" is the third degree, which is what almost every Mason is. I don't want to jump down your throat about his, but it really is wrong to just repeat what is printed in some conspiracy theory website.

I was told that there is a thirty third degree which gets into some pretty controversial information.

Do a search for Thomas Malthus and you can read about a guy who basically argues against the idea of Jesus regarding giving charity to the poor...... .based on his rather elitist ideas that if the poor are treated too well........ they will over populate.... and induce a Malthusian Catastrophe!?

Malthusian catastrophe - Wikipedia

A Malthusian catastrophe (also known as Malthusian check, Malthusian crisis, Malthusian spectre or Malthusian crunch) occurs when population growth outpaces agricultural production.

A Malthusian or neo-Malthusian would tend to find this idea really annoying:

Could a Basic Minimum Income for all Americans decrease abortions?
 
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Albion

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I was told that there is a thirty third degree which gets into some pretty controversial information.
Some Masons belong to a related organization (Scottish Rite Masonry), which has 32 degrees plus one honorary one that is given to a few people for long service, etc. The Scottish Rite is not, however, higher than Master Mason, the 3rd degree, and most Masons are not members in the Scottish Rite or any of the other affiliated groups.

I am aware of Malthus and his ideas but I don't believe he was a Mason and, in any case, what he wrote concerning charity or whatever has nothing to do with Masonry. Masonic charities in this country contribute many millions of dollars in charity annually, without regard to race, creed, or national origin.
 
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Rick Otto

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The "highest level" is the third degree, which is what almost every Mason is. I don't want to jump down your throat about his, but it really is wrong to just repeat what is printed in some conspiracy theory website.
Hilarious.
A glancing knowledge of the theory at issue will obviate that all masons will reflexively deny, either out of ignorance or collusion.
In any case, it is folly on the very surface to accept witness from a member of a secret society, no matter how open or inconsequential they claim their secrets to be.
So... it is really wrong to just repeat what is printed in some secret society brochure.
There was a legitimate anti-masonic political movement in this country at one time.
So much for it being a 'benign fraternity'.
 
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Albion

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Hilarious.
A glancing knowledge of the theory at issue will obviate that all masons will reflexively deny
Hi, Rick. Unfortunately, that seems to be what you rely upon--a glancing knowledge.

What we should all aspire to, if we are going to start making posts that claim to be accurate, is something better than third or fourth hand hearsay.
 
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Rick Otto

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Hi, Rick. Unfortunately, that seems to be what you rely upon--a glancing knowledge.

What we should all aspire to, if we are going to start making posts that claim to be accurate, is something better than third or fourth hand hearsay.
Hi Albion, yes, fortunately you're angle of approach is so fundamentally shallow, I can shoot your fallacious protestations down from my hip with only a glance.
It is at once admirable and stupefying how condescencion & opacity can coexist in full stride.
Thank you for rendering me teachable.
 
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DennisTate

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Good points ........
but each denomination have a percentage of people who take the pride in their denomination too far. I am guilty of doing that myself..........
pride is a very dangerous emotion although there is a good form of it.

Pride in our denomination can lead us to come dangerously close to blasphemy against the Holy Spirit in the same sense as when the Scribes and Pharisees accused Messiah Yeshua - Jesus of doing miracles by the power of Baalzebub!


An apology from a former member of the Worldwide Church of God
 
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Albion

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Good points ........
but each denomination have a percentage of people who take the pride in their denomination too far. I am guilty of doing that myself..........
pride is a very dangerous emotion although there is a good form of it.
We can all agree with you there, but I am not sure how what you are saying relates to the Knights of Columbus or the Masons or any other such fraternal organization. (?)

 
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DennisTate

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We can all agree with you there, but I am not sure how what you are saying relates to the Knights of Columbus or the Masons or any other such fraternal organization. (?)

And.... it is certainly not a salvation issue...... so I don't think that it matters much how informed either you or I are on it. I read a couple of chapters in a couple of books on the basic idea and I tended to take the authors seriously but......... I really am not overly concerned about this question myself.

I took the authors seriously because of a much larger picture that they painted that made sense to me and fitted with what I suspect the full conflict between the fallen angelic kingdom and the kingdom of Messiah Yeshua - Jesus really is.

Have you ever read about the four realms shown to near death experiencer Dr. George Ritchie back in 1943 decades before String Theory postulated invisible dimensions of space and time?

Dr. George Ritchie's Near-Death Experience


....
 
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Albion

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...which I think is sensible. And I feel pretty much the same. However, I am willing to set the record straight if and when I have the relevant information and someone else is asking or else accusing falsely. That's what most of us do here.

If someone doesn't want to join some church, or fraternity, or civic organization, then they should simply find something else that appeals to them.

Have you ever read about the four realms shown to near death experiencer Dr. George Ritchie back in 1943 decades before String Theory postulated invisible dimensions of space and time?
No, I haven't. I've read a lot of case histories of NDEs but all were of people in more recent times.
 
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DennisTate

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I am of the belief that being a member of the Elite .... especially during the dark ages was a very difficult thing to be.

Knights and Earls and Barons and Lords........... would sometimes take lives....... It was considered to be their duty.

Their parents and grandparents and the peers in the Aristocratic Classes faced certain ethical questions that are not so easy to answer........ so they developed traditions that worked over the short and long term.


Sabbath observance under extreme conditions....



Parents and grandparents of Aristocrats destined to assume rulership feared that their children or grandchildren might become "too Christian"....... "too religious?!"


Ecclesiastes 7:16 "Be not righteous over much; neither make thyself over wise: why shouldest thou destroy thyself?"
 
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JM

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Hi, Rick. Unfortunately, that seems to be what you rely upon--a glancing knowledge.

What we should all aspire to, if we are going to start making posts that claim to be accurate, is something better than third or fourth hand hearsay.
Albion is correct here, a glancing knowledge and misinformation runs wild in this thread. Conspiracy theorists enjoy the idea that somehow they have secret knowledge of some massive conspiracy that they, because they are special, have figured it out. This makes correction impossible. This disallows facts and truth in general.



Good luck buddy.

jm
 
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Rick Otto

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Sorry I must object, JM. You're both wrong.
True information cannot pierce a strong commitment to low intelligence.
Secret society enthusiasts enjoy thinking their club surely wouldn't lie to it's own members.
They are special oathtaking secret keepers so their keepers wouldn't lie to them.
No such thing as "good" luck.
May the knowledge of truth be made abundantly known to you before it's too late for you, if it isn't already.
 
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JM

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Hey Albion, you may enjoy this short paper on The Psychology of Conspiracy Theorists (PDF).

Quote:
We have reviewed the current literature on the psychological factors that appear to drive conspiracy belief. We conclude that conspiracy belief appears to stem to a large extent from epistemic, existential, and social motives. Research has yet to demonstrate that it effectively serves those motivations, and early indications are that it may often thwart them. It is possible, therefore, that conspiracy belief is a self-defeating form of motivated social cognition.(end quote)

Yours in the Lord,

jm
 
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