Justification and Salvation

[Knight]

Assuming that they dont fall from grace, yes.

Also consistent with what I understand about Catholic beliefs.

But I thought we were discussing Protestant beliefs....

 

[ej]

I thought we were discussing Christian beliefs

This is NOT an attack, but a genuine question: how can you have achieved salvation whilst you are still alive on Earth, and Jesus has not yet come again to judge us?

 

[Knight]

I thought we were discussing Christian beliefs

We are but this is the P/R/E forum. Viewpoints on this issue vary.

This is NOT an attack, but a genuine question: how can you have achieved salvation whilst you are still alive on Earth, and Jesus has not yet come again to judge us?

There is a difference between being assured of salvation and achieving it. Our salvation will be complete when Christ returns.

I'll refer you to my original post on this thread. I believe this is explained there.

 

[ej]

There is a difference between being assured of salvation and achieving it. Our salvation will be complete when Christ returns.

.

So you agree with me that we WILL BE saved

 

[Knight]

So you agree with me that we WILL BE saved

That depends on what you mean by that statement.

Please define what you mean by "salvation" for me....

 

[ej]

There is a difference between being assured of salvation and achieving it. Our salvation will be complete when Christ returns.

I'll refer you to my original post on this thread. I believe this is explained there.

I'm not going on my definition, I'm going on yours

Your post in the other thread says the same thing

 

[Knight]

I'm not going on my definition, I'm going on yours

Your post in the other thread says the same thing

So what is the confusion?

 

[ej]

There is a difference between being assured of salvation and achieving it. Our salvation will be complete when Christ returns.

No, one who is justified stands right before God. They are saved.

You said both these things and I interpreted them as contradicting each other... the first one I agree with. I think you'd call it 'the Catholic viewpoint'

The second one seems to imply completion of salvation whilst living a sinful life on Earth... apologies for having misinterpreted it.

 

[Knight]

Ok, I think I see the confusion now. Allow me to try and explain.

Justification is part of our salvation. It is the point at which the sinner is declared righteous before God through the blood of Christ.

Here is how my pastor explained it... I'll try and articulate though I cannot promise to do it justice.

Salvation is a process. Step one is justification which has already been explained. Step two is sanctification which is the changing of the believer to conform to the image of Christ. This takes a lifetime and is not fully complete until the third step. The third step is glorification which happens when we die and our soul enters into the presence of God.

In the salvation process all these things take place. One who is justified is righteous before God and will be glorified. Sanctification always occurs at one level or another even if only a few minutes pass between the point of justification and death.

When I mentioned achieving our salvation I was refering to completing all three steps. Forgive me if this was confusing.

 

[eldermike]

There are several views of slavation in the Christian faith. If you want to debate them, please do so in the proper forum. There is no answer "in general" to your question unless you are intrested in a specific denominations view.

Let's not debate soteriological views as if there is only 2. The question is a general question and has been answered as far as it can be without a debate.

 

[InquisitorKind]

What is someone becomes justified and is then hit by a bus? Saved?

The same situation occurred in the Scriptures, execept that the justified person died almost immediately by suffocation, not a bus. Was he saved or not?

If it helps to answer the question, you might remember him as the thief on the cross.

~Matt

 

[ej]

There are several views of slavation in the Christian faith. If you want to debate them, please do so in the proper forum. There is no answer "in general" to your question unless you are intrested in a specific denominations view.

Let's not debate soteriological views as if there is only 2. The question is a general question and has been answered as far as it can be without a debate.

Apologies... I was trying to ascertain the viewpoint here... I don't think there was any debate... mainly because I pretty much agree with Knight now that he's clarified things for me