Justaman.

Thinker · May 16, 2006

Not Good.

I have an atheist cousin whose reasoning closely followed his. Combined with other ...unpleasant events... in his life this lead to a couple of suicide attempts and long subsequent stints of institutionalization. Eventually, after several long conversations, I convinced him that even if he didn't see life as meaningfull, he could still take up something usefull that he liked, which he did.

Way I see it, the `life is meaningless' thing is a possible consequence of atheism.

MewtwoX · May 16, 2006

Way I see it, the `life is meaningless' thing is a possible consequence of atheism.

I would say it's an erroneous conclusion.

How do they forget the meaning that comes from yourself and others?

Thinker · May 16, 2006

I would say it's an erroneous conclusion.

I tend to agree with that, to a point.

How do they forget the meaning that comes from yourself and others?

After his first suicide attempt, I asked my cousin straight out: `Do you think you are leading a meaningless life in a meaningless universe?' He said `Of course.'

The reasoning is that if the universe is essentially random and meaningless, then in the grander scale of things, nothing we can do will give it meaning.

My cousin is a childless bachelor, who prior to his ...problems... `lived to work', which gave his life a sort of `illusion of meaning'. Aside from myself and the occasional girlfriend, he was basically isolated. Hence, there wasn't really a personal element keeping him from the `meaningless life in a meaningless universe' conclusion.

It wasn't until after he'd undergone psychiatric incarceration a couple of times (and started paying attention to some of the people there) that I was able to put forth a `reason to go on' he could accept. Basically, I asked him what he would most like to be doing, then told him he should direct his energies towards that end - which he did.

But he was very strongly in the grip of the `meaningless life in a meaningless universe' bit for a long while.

Osiris · May 16, 2006

I do hope this is just a prank on his part and not a real thing. I feel bad that he won't be with sharing his ideas anymore - with us or anyone else.

The Midge · May 16, 2006

Very sad.

What it comes down to is that the guy was not loved enough. My wish is that he found peace.

joebudda · May 16, 2006

Thinker said:
Way I see it, the `life is meaningless' thing is a possible consequence of atheism.

I would say that there is no inherent meaning to life. So life in and of itself is meaningless.

But we are capable of finding/creating meaning and purpose for ourselves.

But I also dont get depressed because there is not inherent meaning to life, it inspires me to make some.

AirPo · May 16, 2006

Danhalen said:
That doesn't make it any easier for those who remain.

I've always felt that this is the worst part about sucide.

ObbiQuiet · May 16, 2006

The Midge said:
Very sad.

What it comes down to is that the guy was not loved enough. My wish is that he found peace.

I would like to think so, but perhaps I don't know. Perhaps his suicide wasn't in depression - maybe it was the end result of his personal philosophy. He may have even done it with a sense of pride.

Though I'm not sure being loved is enough. Loving and being loved is what keeps me going. To Roy, who said that I make it sound so easy, I understand that it really isn't. I'm single, living in a relatively unfriendly world. I feel like I can talk to no one - I feel that I cannot reach a level of understanding with no one... or I did. Being put in that situation it forced me to try to make due with what I have - to try and find love in the most unusual of places, even if it's the friendly love of two people talking over the phone.

Annabel Lee · May 16, 2006

I'm so sorry.

My sincere condolences to Justaman's family and friends.

Garnett · May 16, 2006

Didn't know the guy but sorry to hear it. Hope his friends and family take solace in the fact it was his decision, and that nobody blames themselves.

Times like these when you wish there was some kind of afterlife.

The Midge · May 16, 2006

ObbiQuiet said:
I would like to think so, but perhaps I don't know. Perhaps his suicide wasn't in depression - maybe it was the end result of his personal philosophy. He may have even done it with a sense of pride.

Though I'm not sure being loved is enough. Loving and being loved is what keeps me going. To Roy, who said that I make it sound so easy, I understand that it really isn't. I'm single, living in a relatively unfriendly world. I feel like I can talk to no one - I feel that I cannot reach a level of understanding with no one... or I did. Being put in that situation it forced me to try to make due with what I have - to try and find love in the most unusual of places, even if it's the friendly love of two people talking over the phone.

I hope you find some here. Christians may not be able to prove the existence of God. But we should have a much better go at proving to people they are loved.

Midge

Caylin · May 16, 2006

b*unique · May 16, 2006

Annabel Lee said:
I'm so sorry.

My sincere condolences to Justaman's family and friends.

for his friends and family

Btodd · May 16, 2006

I tend to think about death and the unfair, arbitrary nature of our existence each day. This was just another giant question mark to be added.

I feel really bad for Justaman and his family....I wish we all could have given up a portion of our happiness to create some for him. I feel guilty for being happy and alive.

Btodd

b*unique · May 16, 2006

Btodd said:
I tend to think about death and the unfair, arbitrary nature of our existence each day. This was just another giant question mark to be added.

I feel really bad for Justaman and his family....I wish we all could have given up a portion of our happiness to create some for him. I feel guilty for being happy and alive.

Btodd

awww it is hard to not feel bad

Soul_Searcher · May 16, 2006

Thanks for letting us know Zoot. It's just so sad to see, for those of us saying good-bye; he was a pretty intelligent and creative (thanks David) guy too.

Soul_Searcher · May 16, 2006

Hi Obbi,

"Though I'm not sure being loved is enough. Loving and being loved is what keeps me going. To Roy, who said that I make it sound so easy, I understand that it really isn't. I'm single, living in a relatively unfriendly world. I feel like I can talk to no one - I feel that I cannot reach a level of understanding with no one... or I did. Being put in that situation it forced me to try to make due with what I have - to try and find love in the most unusual of places, even if it's the friendly love of two people talking over the phone."

While Justaman's fate put us all in a melancholy mood, this surprises me about you, as you are (to me) very witty and smart, and I would think you'd have no problem with making friends and finding love. One can never know though. I know I'm just an old guy, but if you ever need to talk or vent just pop me a PM.

Take care.

royboy · May 16, 2006

How did he do it?

b*unique · May 16, 2006

ObbiQuiet said:
I would like to think so, but perhaps I don't know. Perhaps his suicide wasn't in depression - maybe it was the end result of his personal philosophy. He may have even done it with a sense of pride.

Though I'm not sure being loved is enough. Loving and being loved is what keeps me going. To Roy, who said that I make it sound so easy, I understand that it really isn't. I'm single, living in a relatively unfriendly world. I feel like I can talk to no one - I feel that I cannot reach a level of understanding with no one... or I did. Being put in that situation it forced me to try to make due with what I have - to try and find love in the most unusual of places, even if it's the friendly love of two people talking over the phone.

In my experience,it is not easy to find people who understand us,who are close to our way of thinking,this led me to move away from country to country,and I would rather be alone than stuck with someone
just for the sake of it
I was lucky,and did find that special person,and did find a small group of people,some online,some in real life,I can relate to.
I hope you will take less time finding them

ObbiQuiet · May 16, 2006

Soul_Searcher said:
Hi Obbi,

"Though I'm not sure being loved is enough. Loving and being loved is what keeps me going. To Roy, who said that I make it sound so easy, I understand that it really isn't. I'm single, living in a relatively unfriendly world. I feel like I can talk to no one - I feel that I cannot reach a level of understanding with no one... or I did. Being put in that situation it forced me to try to make due with what I have - to try and find love in the most unusual of places, even if it's the friendly love of two people talking over the phone."

While Justaman's fate put us all in a melancholy mood, this surprises me about you, as you are (to me) very witty and smart, and I would think you'd have no problem with making friends and finding love. One can never know though. I know I'm just an old guy, but if you ever need to talk or vent just pop me a PM.

Take care.

Thank you, but part of my reason for saying this is because I'm in the army. I'm surrounded entirely by dudes who just want to get drunk, get laid and fight. I just don't mesh well with most of the people here.

Edit: Something else... zoot, could you perhaps email me Justaman's entire play?

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