Just wanted to get your permission, on something: can I question what Evolution does for Creation?

[Gottservant]

Hi there,

So yes, my thinking has come to something of a head: I want to ask Evolutionists what Evolution does for Creation? It's sort of a reverse logic, to "what does Creation do for Evolution?" and I just wanted to get your permission, before I provoke what could be a hostile response to Creation in general. In all honesty, they will probably say nothing but that "Evolution is just a theory", but in the same vein...

I will probably say "so, it does something theoretical for Creation?" - its this particular claim that Evolution does something, that I am really after: because if you deny agency, you can exonerate yourself from conviction, about sin, but also in reality anything else. I don't want that, I want accountability - which is why I want to risk blow back that might seek to martyr Creation. I am not going to provoke something that is unreasonable, but who I am speaking to can be unreasonable - that's all.

The thing that will totally debunk it, in principle, is if you turn around and say "he never got permission from us, to talk about what Evolution does for Creation" that would be to martyr me, for having curiosity, basically. I am just not pretending that Creation is "mine", that's all - I want to know that I am or am not speaking for you, when I question what Evolution does for us. They could say "Evolution does nothing" or "no more than Creation does" but that would still work to my advantage, because I can point to the words of Jesus, as true, whether for us or against us.

What I really hope, is that the Lord (bless Him) will manifest, in the conversation and start to work towards the light, through the words we have to say about Creation, yes, but also through the hope we have despite Evolution. I honestly believe Jesus would give me permission to speak about this, which you can see is the foundation of my question, just that we do not want theories that don't do anything but benefit themselves. Creation of course, does many things for people, we are to justify whoever we can - so that will definitely play out to our advantage also. If you think I am wrong about Jesus, that He would not provoke the conscience of the fallen, then maybe we have an impasse that we can't work with. That being the case, I guess I will just try and find another angle, by which to drive out disingenuousness that Evolution invites.

I won't continue on at length - maybe just say "its a fair enough question" or "you are asking something that they will find too hard to answer" - I will do a poll.

Thanks much, I appreciate your time!

 

[miamited]

Hi @Gottservant

The problem with evolutionary theory isn't really what it does to 'christianity'. The problem is what it does to people's understanding of beginnings, which is, for believers, the very foundational core of what God has done. Why we are here. What we are to believe about reality and ourselves.

The very basic understanding of an evolutionary model to explain our existence, the existence of men and women and children upon the earth, is that we were not created by a loving God who cares about us and created all things for our purposes. Who created all things that we might have the natural resources for food and clothing and shelter.

The evolutionary model postulates that rather than this God who loves and cares for us, we were created from some previously existing creature upon the earth. So, while we may acquiesce in our minds in some way that there is a God and He somehow 'got the ball rolling', mankind is not necessarily some special creature of His creating that He especially loves and cares for and wants to be in relationship with. We are only, through some biological process, just a more skilled monkey or dog or fish or whatever animal one might believe that we evolved from.

Therefore, such a theory, as it is accepted more and more into our worldview, gives us an excuse to deny God and His power, majesty and love.

God bless,
Ted

 

[Gottservant]

Hi @Gottservant

The problem with evolutionary theory isn't really what it does to 'christianity'. The problem is what it does to people's understanding of beginnings, which is, for believers, the very foundational core of what God has done. Why we are here. What we are to believe about reality and ourselves.

The very basic understanding of an evolutionary model to explain our existence, the existence of men and women and children upon the earth, is that we were not created by a loving God who cares about us and created all things for our purposes. Who created all things that we might have the natural resources for food and clothing and shelter.

The evolutionary model postulates that rather than this God who loves and cares for us, we were created from some previously existing creature upon the earth. So, while we may acquiesce in our minds in some way that there is a God and He somehow 'got the ball rolling', mankind is not necessarily some special creature of His creating that He especially loves and cares for and wants to be in relationship with. We are only, through some biological process, just a more skilled monkey or dog or fish or whatever animal one might believe that we evolved from.

Therefore, such a theory, as it is accepted more and more into our worldview, gives us an excuse to deny God and His power, majesty and love.

God bless,
Ted

I read everything you wrote and agree with the importance of God's exclusive love for us - I would pray that God love us more exclusively - but what do you think about the idea that God also wanted us to be able to excel, in a way that would give both He and Us Glory, the more Glory being to God, but also the White Throne Judgment, where our excellence would be rewarded? You can see that God was willing for His Children to Excel? That we have a right to get angry at the Devil and demand that our opportunity be recognized as any Man?

Jesus told the story of the prodigal son, but He also justified the Wisdom of the Elder Son.

 

[Gottservant]

Therefore, such a theory, as it is accepted more and more into our worldview, gives us an excuse to deny God and His power, majesty and love.

God bless,
Ted

Just as regards the thread original post (OP), do you think Evolutionists should be aware of the effect that their theory has on us, that without God it makes us sick and anaemic, untrustworthy and of poor health? And is there a better way than to just ask them of their own mouth, what good they think it does?

 

[SkyWriting]

Hi there,

So yes, my thinking has come to something of a head: I want to ask Evolutionists what Evolution does for Creation?

Evolution displays the genius of the Creator and His ability to created brilliant engineering design of infinite complexity.

 

[eleos1954]

Hi there,

So yes, my thinking has come to something of a head: I want to ask Evolutionists what Evolution does for Creation? It's sort of a reverse logic, to "what does Creation do for Evolution?" and I just wanted to get your permission, before I provoke what could be a hostile response to Creation in general. In all honesty, they will probably say nothing but that "Evolution is just a theory", but in the same vein...

I will probably say "so, it does something theoretical for Creation?" - its this particular claim that Evolution does something, that I am really after: because if you deny agency, you can exonerate yourself from conviction, about sin, but also in reality anything else. I don't want that, I want accountability - which is why I want to risk blow back that might seek to martyr Creation. I am not going to provoke something that is unreasonable, but who I am speaking to can be unreasonable - that's all.

The thing that will totally debunk it, in principle, is if you turn around and say "he never got permission from us, to talk about what Evolution does for Creation" that would be to martyr me, for having curiosity, basically. I am just not pretending that Creation is "mine", that's all - I want to know that I am or am not speaking for you, when I question what Evolution does for us. They could say "Evolution does nothing" or "no more than Creation does" but that would still work to my advantage, because I can point to the words of Jesus, as true, whether for us or against us.

What I really hope, is that the Lord (bless Him) will manifest, in the conversation and start to work towards the light, through the words we have to say about Creation, yes, but also through the hope we have despite Evolution. I honestly believe Jesus would give me permission to speak about this, which you can see is the foundation of my question, just that we do not want theories that don't do anything but benefit themselves. Creation of course, does many things for people, we are to justify whoever we can - so that will definitely play out to our advantage also. If you think I am wrong about Jesus, that He would not provoke the conscience of the fallen, then maybe we have an impasse that we can't work with. That being the case, I guess I will just try and find another angle, by which to drive out disingenuousness that Evolution invites.

I won't continue on at length - maybe just say "its a fair enough question" or "you are asking something that they will find too hard to answer" - I will do a poll.

Thanks much, I appreciate your time!

Life comes from life ... that we know.

Of course science has a theory outside of that (abiogenesis).

 

[miamited]

Just as regards the thread original post (OP), do you think Evolutionists should be aware of the effect that their theory has on us, that without God it makes us sick and anaemic, untrustworthy and of poor health? And is there a better way than to just ask them of their own mouth, what good they think it does?

Hi @Gottservant

I doubt that evolutionists would care what it does to weak believers. After all, they believe evolutionary theory is the truth and that the Scriptural explanation cannot be trusted or is not 'understood' correctly. So, they think they're correcting us. And because they believe what they are teaching, they see their work in correcting us as a good thing.

As to the issues of 'effect that their theory has on us, I don't think it is the evolutionary theory, itself, that makes us 'sick and anemic, untrustworthy and of poor health. It's merely a believer of weak faith or even some who claim to be a part of us who are not, that may suffer such afflictions.

My faith is firm and my understanding is sure. I don't believe that I suffer any of the ills that you speak of, just because I may listen to evolutionists here on this site or in other conversations.

God bless,
Ted

 

[VladTheEmailer]

Hi there,

So yes, my thinking has come to something of a head: I want to ask Evolutionists what Evolution does for Creation? It's sort of a reverse logic, to "what does Creation do for Evolution?" and I just wanted to get your permission, before I provoke what could be a hostile response to Creation in general. In all honesty, they will probably say nothing but that "Evolution is just a theory", but in the same vein...

I will probably say "so, it does something theoretical for Creation?" - its this particular claim that Evolution does something, that I am really after: because if you deny agency, you can exonerate yourself from conviction, about sin, but also in reality anything else. I don't want that, I want accountability - which is why I want to risk blow back that might seek to martyr Creation. I am not going to provoke something that is unreasonable, but who I am speaking to can be unreasonable - that's all.

The thing that will totally debunk it, in principle, is if you turn around and say "he never got permission from us, to talk about what Evolution does for Creation" that would be to martyr me, for having curiosity, basically. I am just not pretending that Creation is "mine", that's all - I want to know that I am or am not speaking for you, when I question what Evolution does for us. They could say "Evolution does nothing" or "no more than Creation does" but that would still work to my advantage, because I can point to the words of Jesus, as true, whether for us or against us.

What I really hope, is that the Lord (bless Him) will manifest, in the conversation and start to work towards the light, through the words we have to say about Creation, yes, but also through the hope we have despite Evolution. I honestly believe Jesus would give me permission to speak about this, which you can see is the foundation of my question, just that we do not want theories that don't do anything but benefit themselves. Creation of course, does many things for people, we are to justify whoever we can - so that will definitely play out to our advantage also. If you think I am wrong about Jesus, that He would not provoke the conscience of the fallen, then maybe we have an impasse that we can't work with. That being the case, I guess I will just try and find another angle, by which to drive out disingenuousness that Evolution invites.

I won't continue on at length - maybe just say "its a fair enough question" or "you are asking something that they will find too hard to answer" - I will do a poll.

Thanks much, I appreciate your time!

They will point out (like many of you other arguments) that it doesn't make any sense.

ments) that it doesn't make any sense. sense

 

[VladTheEmailer]

They will point out (like many of you other arguments) that it doesn't make any sense.

 

[Gottservant]

They will point out (like many of you other arguments) that it doesn't make any sense.

You don't think one theory can do anything, for another?

Sorry, we disagree.

In Jesus' Name Amen.