Just a question..

[godismyabba]

I didn't come here to learn about or discuss my own religion. I came here to learn about the religion which 75% of my fellow citizens claim to be. As for why I'm still around, I enjoy conversating with people on the net, and this place is a pretty active site. I'd rather come here and take part in several conversations a day on a variety of subjects, and get replies and such, rather than go to a Pagan-centric site and maybe get a reply to my posts in a week or twelve, and only discuss a small range of topics.

Hi! Sorry I'm just reading this. I noticed you are pagen, what is that? Is it different from an athiest (I assume)? Forgive my ignorance, I didn't realize the non-Christian religions were so numerous. I have heard of Muslim, Buddist, Athiest, ect, but Christians always call non-believers "pagen" (or heathen).. I didn't know there was a difference. (I'm honestly asking out of curiosity).
Melissa

 

[godismyabba]

It makes me giggle at times, seeing how idiotic some Christians really are, but also mad because they're so close minded. Some, not all.

I typed in the name of the list you referred to, and I don't think it picked up the correct website. Since I don't know what you are referring to, I'll leave that alone for now. As far as me, I understand that you think my beliefs are idiotic or close minded, but to "defend" myself, I have met some athiests (like you said, not all), who won't even let me breathe a word about my beliefs without a huge protest. Isn't that close minded as well? I also understand everyone has different understandings on what they actually believe.. even when I was an athiest I would have others that would argue what we believed .. so even within each religion there are disagreements on what that religion stands for. (IMO) it isn't so much close mindedness, it is just standing up for what you believe.

I have just learned to let people have their opinion without arguing. I feel like the Christian religion is the only true path, but it's not up to me to convert anyone. If they ask, I share. Well, I share anyway, I just don't yell at anyone for not believing the same way. I let them have their opinion.. hoping that it will change in the future. Does any of this make sense?? I think I'm rambling.. I'll let you go for now. Melissa

 

[godismyabba]

Because it's more intellectually stimulating than having a bunch of people who agree on something in the same room.

This is the place where we can violate the second rule of polite conversation (i.e., never discuss religion; #1 is politics).

too true...

 

[godismyabba]

You mustn´t forget that for a non-believer the idea of god doesn´t have the significance it has for a believer. The non-believer doesn´t even believe that a god exists, after all.
In regards to all other topics the variety of opinions among Christians is roughly as widespread as in any other group.

But in view of the fact that religion is a strong factor in the world around me, and in view of the fact that this is completely beyond me, I am of course interested to find out how and why people do believe those things that appear absurd to me.

However, you have a point in that arguments of the "because the bible says so" sort are not really arguments, in my book, and therefore the conversation with some Christians a priori lacks the common ground that is required for successful communication.

Its funny, I've been a Christian now for 11 years (I wasn't baptised until about 3yrs ago), but I remember thinking how you think. I couldn't believe that anyone that had a shred of intelligence could believe in God, or any god for that matter. All I can say, is my Abba works in funny ways. Thanks for answering the question, I'm getting some interesting responses. Melissa

 

[godismyabba]

Where's the fun in only conversing with people who agree with you? Preaching to the choir (no pun intended) is boring.

ha ha..
What's a humanist? I need to do some reading, y'all are confusing me! It was much easier when you were either Christian or athiest..
mac

 

[KalithAlur]

to corrupt christians

just kidding, i'm a christian

 

[keith99]

I came here because in the politics and religion section of a board otherwise devoted to bicycling someone posted a link to a site that was devoted to stupid things Christians say. That site was good enough to link to the sources of those foolish quotes. And yes they were by and large pretty foolish. But I decided to trace some back. Long ago I learned context matters and also with any group there will be fools.

I got here and found some things interesting.

Oh and to finish things, the quote from this board was on the topic of Christian submission with marriage and the post that was cited got little support and much derision here.

 

[cantata]

ha ha..
What's a humanist? I need to do some reading, y'all are confusing me! It was much easier when you were either Christian or athiest..
mac

(Most) humanists believe that all people are valuable and deserve dignity. They tend to base their ethics on the importance of human qualities shared by us all, such as rationality and compassion. However, humanists can be Christian, atheist, agnostic, Jewish &c. Religious beliefs, or substitutes for such, are not necessarily implied when someone calls themselves a humanist.

Pagans are not just non-Christians. The term 'paganism' has come to refer to any 'folk' religion. Wicca is one of the best-known examples of a pagan religion.

I would also prefer it if you didn't refer to atheism as a religion. There are non-theistic religions, including Buddhism, Confucianism, and arguably Maoism, but atheism on its own describes only a lack of belief in a higher power - it doesn't imply any religious affiliation. You can be an atheist Buddhist, an atheist humanist, or even an atheist Jew.

Please try to spell 'atheist' right! The E comes before the I - it's from theos, meaning 'god', with the prefix a, meaning 'non' or 'not' or 'without'. So an a-theist is someone who lacks a belief in a god or gods.

ETA: the site is fstdt.com, if you want to have a look at it. It's pretty shocking.

 

[godismyabba]

(Most) humanists believe that all people are valuable and deserve dignity. They tend to base their ethics on the importance of human qualities shared by us all, such as rationality and compassion. However, humanists can be Christian, atheist, agnostic, Jewish &c. Religious beliefs, or substitutes for such, are not necessarily implied when someone calls themselves a humanist.

Pagans are not just non-Christians. The term 'paganism' has come to refer to any 'folk' religion. Wicca is one of the best-known examples of a pagan religion.

I would also prefer it if you didn't refer to atheism as a religion. There are non-theistic religions, including Buddhism, Confucianism, and arguably Maoism, but atheism on its own describes only a lack of belief in a higher power - it doesn't imply any religious affiliation. You can be an atheist Buddhist, an atheist humanist, or even an atheist Jew.

Please try to spell 'atheist' right! The E comes before the I - it's from theos, meaning 'god', with the prefix a, meaning 'non' or 'not' or 'without'. So an a-theist is someone who lacks a belief in a god or gods.

ETA: the site is fstdt.com, if you want to have a look at it. It's pretty shocking.

I'm starting to get it...(I think, it's a lot to absorb). I never took the time to look into any of this.. Anyhow, forgive my horrible spelling.. I'm too lazy to use spell check.

As far as referring to atheism as a religion, I do that because I've had a few say "Well check out my religion at www..." and name a website. The ones that try to argue with me say theirs is a valid religion like mine..so I say ok and try to respect that they see it that way.

Thanks for your answer, it gives me some perspective when I am talking to some of the others on the boards. I hate to assume when I am talking to someone, and that is what I did when I saw your "humanist" icon, I assumed it was a religion in itself. I don't mind being corrected, and I do my best not to make the same mistakes.

My goal is not to hurt anyone, or be rude. I am just curious. I think most people need to learn they can agree to disagree and quit being so mean to each other. Of course I think Christianity is the only way, but I don't want to disrespect anyone... no matter what they believe in.

Thanks again, Melissa

 

[FreeSpirit74]

For the non-Christians in the forum, Why do you come to a Christian forum as opposed to one where the views are closer to yours?

Actually, I DO belong to a Wiccan/Pagan message board, run by www.witchway.com, and I do post there from time to time.

Coming here is like entertainment for me. I get a great deal of amusement from reading stuff written by the more fundy-minded Christians here. Like all their wailing about being "persecuted"... so they NOT see the irony apparent in that? As someone who is both an ethnic Sephardic Jew by birth, and a Pagan by choice, I find those attitudes both funny and sad at the same time. What about all the persecuting they have done to people of other religions, or other ethnic backgrounds besides "white"? They've been shoving their beliefs down the throats of people, with no thought as to whether said folks are even interested, for years. And they refuse to recognize that religion is a choice, a personal decision, and that it is not one size fits all. And when you try to introduce concepts of other religions to these nitwits, they refuse to listen, while all the time they try to talk as if they have first,hand knowledge of these other belief systems, or part and parcel of same.

For example... when they talk about the "evils" of magick. As if they know what magick REALLY is. I'd love to know how many of the more rigid-minded fundies have kids who take karate or other forms of martial arts. Any MA instructor worthy of the term will instruct students on the raising and using of chi, or life-force energy (you cannot separate the physical from the philosophical/spiritual in MA). And that is ALL magick is, is the raising and use of chi to bring change in accordance with one's will. All the Harry Potter wand-waving is not even necessary.

And another thing about magick... whether it is "black" or "white" depends totally on the intent of the practitioner.

OK, I'm done. This isn't a rip on you, personally, godismyabba, more a summation of thoughts that have come to me in the course of my being here and reading what people have written.

 

[godismyabba]

Actually, I DO belong to a Wiccan/Pagan message board, run by

www.witchway.com, and I do post there from time to time.

Coming here is like entertainment for me. I get a great deal of amusement from reading stuff written by the more fundy-minded Christians here. Like all their wailing about being "persecuted"... so they NOT see the irony apparent in that? As someone who is both an ethnic Sephardic Jew by birth, and a Pagan by choice, I find those attitudes both funny and sad at the same time. What about all the persecuting they have done to people of other religions, or other ethnic backgrounds besides "white"? They've been shoving their beliefs down the throats of people, with no thought as to whether said folks are even interested, for years. And they refuse to recognize that religion is a choice, a personal decision, and that it is not one size fits all. And when you try to introduce concepts of other religions to these nitwits, they refuse to listen, while all the time they try to talk as if they have first,hand knowledge of these other belief systems, or part and parcel of same.

For example... when they talk about the "evils" of magick. As if they know what magick REALLY is. I'd love to know how many of the more rigid-minded fundies have kids who take karate or other forms of martial arts. Any MA instructor worthy of the term will instruct students on the raising and using of chi, or life-force energy (you cannot separate the physical from the philosophical/spiritual in MA). And that is ALL magick is, is the raising and use of chi to bring change in accordance with one's will. All the Harry Potter wand-waving is not even necessary.

And another thing about magick... whether it is "black" or "white" depends totally on the intent of the practitioner.

OK, I'm done. This isn't a rip on you, personally, godismyabba, more a summation of thoughts that have come to me in the course of my being here and reading what people have written.

no "rip" taken...

 

[FreeSpirit74]

I'm starting to get it...(I think, it's a lot to absorb). I never took the time to look into any of this.. Anyhow, forgive my horrible spelling.. I'm too lazy to use spell check.

If you have any questions on Paganism, or Wicca, you can try Wikipedia, or try these two sites:

www.witchway.com (This one has a very informative forum on it)
www.witchvox.com (This site has a lot of articles and info on it)

I came to Wicca because I had a buddy, an old guy (his words are in my sig) who had studied karate in Japan, in the 1960s. He used to talk to me all the time about chi, which I mentioned in my last post... basically, he was giving me training in the MA mindset, if not the physical side of it. Well, we had a falling out a few months ago, and I was wandering around Wikipedia, and something told me to look up Wicca. The more I read, the more I realized that, this was the same stuff he was instructing me in, minus the dieties aspect (the God and the Goddess, rituals, etc.). I actually found an author, Kerr Cuhulain, who marries the archetype of the Warrior (and Martial Arts) with Wicca. And that is the basis of my belief system now. Kerr is one of the few openly Wiccan police officers (I believe he's retired now).

My goal is not to hurt anyone, or be rude. I am just curious. Of course I think Christianity is the only way, but I don't want to disrespect anyone... no matter what they believe in.

Thanks again, Melissa

Thank you!! Especially for the part that I bolded. This is what I wish EVERYBODY, regardless of what religious stripe they are, could be big enough to say that. To realize that their religion is the right one FOR THEM, because it works FOR THEM, but that it doesn't work for everyone else out there.

Awesome, awesome, awesome. You just went up a notch in my book.

 

[Dahlia1]

Hi! Sorry I'm just reading this. I noticed you are pagen, what is that? Is it different from an athiest (I assume)? Forgive my ignorance, I didn't realize the non-Christian religions were so numerous. I have heard of Muslim, Buddist, Athiest, ect, but Christians always call non-believers "pagen" (or heathen).. I didn't know there was a difference. (I'm honestly asking out of curiosity).
Melissa

Thank you for asking.
Pagan usually refers to a religion which does not belong to the Abrahamic faiths (Christianity, Judaism, etc). Today when people call themselves Pagan they usually mean Wiccan or Eclectic Wiccan. Most celebrate natural cycles such as full moons, Equinoxes, etc, and believe in some kind of karmic rule (do good and you'll recieve good, do bad and you'll recieve bad.) Pagans usually have a high respect for nature and practice witchcraft. We're also heavily into balance and cycles, much like the Eastern and Native American beliefs.
Like others have mentioned, witchvox is a good source if you want to know more.

Edit: oops! I forgot to mention that Pagans usually don't refer to themselves as Heathens. When they do, that usually means that they are a member of the Asatru religion.

...and did you notice the number of times I have said 'usually'? O.O

 

[godismyabba]

Thank you for asking.
Pagan usually refers to a religion which does not belong to the Abrahamic faiths (Christianity, Judaism, etc). Today when people call themselves Pagan they usually mean Wiccan or Eclectic Wiccan. Most celebrate natural cycles such as full moons, Equinoxes, etc, and believe in some kind of karmic rule (do good and you'll recieve good, do bad and you'll recieve bad.) Pagans usually have a high respect for nature and practice witchcraft. We're also heavily into balance and cycles, much like the Eastern and Native American beliefs.
Like others have mentioned, witchvox is a good source if you want to know more.

Edit: oops! I forgot to mention that Pagans usually don't refer to themselves as Heathens. When they do, that usually means that they are a member of the Asatru religion.

...and did you notice the number of times I have said 'usually'? O.O

lol, it's usually Christians who refer to you as heathens.. ok, have to laugh at ourselves a teeny bit . Thanks for the info.. I am learning. And yes, I see the number of times you say "usually". It applies to Christians as well. What we are supposed to be and what we actually are differ more times than I care to admit . If all Christians actually acted like Christians, I think more people would be curious to seek Jehovah God. I wish it were this way, I guess we are just too human and people see the faults more than they see the good. Melissa

 

[quatona]

Its funny, I've been a Christian now for 11 years (I wasn't baptised until about 3yrs ago), but I remember thinking how you think. I couldn't believe that anyone that had a shred of intelligence could believe in God, or any god for that matter.

Just to clarify: for me personally it´s not so much about intelligence.
I left Christianity as soon as I grew out of childhood, so I am a non-believer for at least 35 years (if I have ever been a believer, that is).
I guess the main reason why religion is not for me is the fact that I don´t even find those existential questions meaningful that religion attempts to answer.

All I can say, is my Abba works in funny ways.

Excuse my ignorance, but I can´t seem to make sense of the term "Abba" in this context (I´m not a native English speaker, anyways).

Thanks for answering the question, I'm getting some interesting responses. Melissa

Thanks for the interested questions.

 

[godismyabba]

....
Excuse my ignorance, but I can´t seem to make sense of the term "Abba" in this context (I´m not a native English speaker, anyways)....

What's your original language? Abba is "Father" (Aramaic), and is akin to our "daddy" in English. I used to think (when I was really young) that God was this dude in the sky with a beard that made a lot of rules. Of course, when I decided He didn't exist it didn't matter. But then I "got saved" (I don't know a better way to put that), and still saw Him as this untouchable, rule making God. I went on a walk to Emmaus (spiritual retreat) and began to see Him as a Daddy who really loves me.. the name stuck. Melissa

 

[quatona]

What's your original language?

German.

Abba is "Father" (Aramaic),

Now that you mention it, it dawns to me.

and is akin to our "daddy" in English. I used to think (when I was really young) that God was this dude in the sky with a beard that made a lot of rules. Of course, when I decided He didn't exist it didn't matter. But then I "got saved" (I don't know a better way to put that), and still saw Him as this untouchable, rule making God. I went on a walk to Emmaus (spiritual retreat) and began to see Him as a Daddy who really loves me.. the name stuck. Melissa

I see. Thanks for explaining!

 

[Shigatsu418]

I typed in the name of the list you referred to, and I don't think it picked up the correct website. Since I don't know what you are referring to, I'll leave that alone for now. As far as me, I understand that you think my beliefs are idiotic or close minded, but to "defend" myself, I have met some athiests (like you said, not all), who won't even let me breathe a word about my beliefs without a huge protest. Isn't that close minded as well? I also understand everyone has different understandings on what they actually believe.. even when I was an athiest I would have others that would argue what we believed .. so even within each religion there are disagreements on what that religion stands for. (IMO) it isn't so much close mindedness, it is just standing up for what you believe.

I have just learned to let people have their opinion without arguing. I feel like the Christian religion is the only true path, but it's not up to me to convert anyone. If they ask, I share. Well, I share anyway, I just don't yell at anyone for not believing the same way. I let them have their opinion.. hoping that it will change in the future. Does any of this make sense?? I think I'm rambling.. I'll let you go for now. Melissa

I didn't say I think your beliefs are idiotic, I said some Christians are. Keyword: SOME. Well if you haven't seen it then you don't know what I'm talking but I'm sure if you did you'd have to agree with me that some of those people are a little crazy.

Yes in a way it's close mindedness, I didn't say other religions weren't as well.