Just a question

[TreeOfLife]

Is there such a thing as a Charismatic Calvinist? Those of you who have blessed me with your teaching and patience in the past know that I am not being facitious.

I am absolutely Charismatic, but have most of my understanding of truth squarely in the same vien as those who are Calvinist.

That is not normal for Charismatics. I would be willing to bet they are 95% Arminian in their views.

I get a great deal of greif in the Charismatic forums for this.

 

[Cajun Huguenot]

Is there such a thing as a Charismatic Calvinist? Those of you who have blessed me with your teaching and patience in the past know that I am not being facitious.

I am absolutely Charismatic, but have most of my understanding of truth squarely in the same vien as those who are Calvinist.

That is not normal for Charismatics. I would be willing to bet they are 95% Arminian in their views.

I get a great deal of greif in the Charismatic forums for this.

A Calvinistic Charismatic is an unusual creature. They are quite rare but they do exist.I think you will find at the The Calvinist Corner one of these unusual creatures. He may be able to help you find others.

In Christ,
Kenith

 

[Cajun Huguenot]

A Calvinistic Charismatic is an unusual creature. They are quite rare but they do exist.I think you will find at the The Calvinist Corner one of these unusual creatures. He may be able to help you find others.

In Christ,
Kenith

Here is another such site: http://www.adrian.warnock.info/2005/02/reformed-charismatic-blogs-aggregator.htm

Kenith

 

[CCWoody]

I don't know....

Your friendly neighborhood Concealed Carry Woody....
Your friendly neighborhood Continuationist Calvinist Woody....
Your friendly neighborhood Charismatic Calvinist Woody....

 

[CCWoody]

That is not normal for Charismatics. I would be willing to bet they are 95% Arminian in their views.

I get a great deal of greif in the Charismatic forums for this.

Say it ain't so!!! Seems like a certain PentecostalEvangelist on this forum a few days ago wigged out on me. In fact, most Pentecostals go nuts around me. I mean, it is not like I don't do the same things they do.

It seems like Tuesday night/ Wednesday morning I was camping out in the desert with a few Calvinist friends, staying up for all hours of the night til you are drop dead tired (Isn't that like being slain in the spirit), playing with the snakes & scorpions. DOESN'T THAT COUNT FOR SOMETHING!!!!

Now, granted there were some flames involved, but it is not like "flicking your bic" in the middle of a Unitarian Universalists church of Michael Servetus.

 

[Bulldog]

I don't know....

Your friendly neighborhood Concealed Carry Woody....
Your friendly neighborhood Continuationist Calvinist Woody....
Your friendly neighborhood Charismatic Calvinist Woody....

How about "Your friendly neighborhood reConstructionist Calvinist Woody."

 

[CCWoody]

How about "Your friendly neighborhood reConstructionist Calvinist Woody."

I don't know.... Is that anything like Partial Preterist Amillennialist?

 

[Imblessed]

I don't know.... Is that anything like Partial Preterist Amillennialist?

hey i resemble(d) that remark...for about a week!


TreeofLife:

as far as I know, there are few that hang out around here....


CCWoody, I thought it was

Cordial Calvinist Woody......

I didn't know you were Charismatic!

 

[Bulldog]

I don't know.... Is that anything like Partial Preterist Amillennialist?

As far as I know, it has it's largest following in the posmillenial camp, but I don't think it is directly related to eschatology. See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Reconstructionism

 

[Bulldog]

nevermind

 

[ClementofRome]

Well as a Calvinistic Inaugurated Millennialist (not that this has anything to do with my question...only the above posts!) , I have a question for the Charismatic Calvinist...

Can you please explain what exactly happens when the "gift" of tongues is manifested? Why is it that when we hear those good TV preachers break into tongues it sounds so scripted? Why, when my 16year old daughter visited the local charasmatic church youth group she was faced with "training" in "tongues" and "slayings in the Spirit"?

Enquiring minds want to know.

 

[CCWoody]

CCWoody, I thought it was

Cordial Calvinist Woody......

I didn't know you were Charismatic!

Well, you know....

Cordial Calvinist....
Comedic Calvinist....
Cute Calvinist (it's the face paint and hair)....

I have many names.

Actually, in all seriousness, I am more of a Continuationist than an active Charismatic. I have never spoken in tongues, even if the Arminians look at me like I babble. I have heard what I believe was a real prophecy in tongues with an interpretation. ONCE! Everything else was just holy click-clack bug talk or something. WIERD!!!

 

[CCWoody]

Well as a Calvinistic Inaugurated Millennialist (not that this has anything to do with my question...only the above posts!) , I have a question for the Charismatic Calvinist...

Can you please explain what exactly happens when the "gift" of tongues is manifested? Why is it that when we hear those good TV preachers break into tongues it sounds so scripted? Why, when my 16year old daughter visited the local charasmatic church youth group she was faced with "training" in "tongues" and "slayings in the Spirit"?

Enquiring minds want to know.

Probably for the same reason that one of my last days in my local charismatic like church they practiced prophecy. You see, you need to exercise to get good.

As far as tongues. I have never spoken in tongues, but I have received a good tongue lashing or two. I can explain what happens when that manifests if you like.

 

[TreeOfLife]

Well as a Calvinistic Inaugurated Millennialist (not that this has anything to do with my question...only the above posts!) , I have a question for the Charismatic Calvinist...

Can you please explain what exactly happens when the "gift" of tongues is manifested? Why is it that when we hear those good TV preachers break into tongues it sounds so scripted? Why, when my 16year old daughter visited the local charasmatic church youth group she was faced with "training" in "tongues" and "slayings in the Spirit"?

Enquiring minds want to know.

If I could speak for the entire church I wouldn't have asked the question in the first place. My point being, you'll have to go ask the tv preacher and the local charismatic church pastor about those things.

I do absolutely believe in the continuing operation of and gifting of the Holy Spirit in the believer today. I don't believe that God changed His modus operandi after the death of the first 14 apostles.

In fact, I am beginning to think that the problems in the P/C churches today are mostly from holding views that fall more towards Armineism than Calvinism, and one good revelation of Grace would straighten out a great deal of the excesses.

But back to my question, are there currently any churches within the Calvinist fold that proclaim that the gifts of the Spirit are still in use today?

 

[ClementofRome]

My apologies...I was not making fun of you or trolling for a debate.

The Evangelical Presbyterian Church (EPC) is open to a more charismatic expression of the Christian faith. You will not find it in all EPC churches, but you find it in many. Now as for the consistency of their Calvinism, I would have to place them a tad toward Arminianism. I only say this because of the one and only EPC church in which I have been exposed. This particular church drew many who were there for the charismatic experience and not for any specific doctrine being taught. The preaching was more geared toward experience than doctrine. However, I knew the pastor and he was a Calvinist, so to speak (at least on paper). His wife, professed to have the gift of prophecy and often alienated parishoners with her off the wall and sometimes hurtful "prophecies."

That particular church no longer exists. So, I believe that the abuses of which you previously spoke led to its demise. I am sure that it does not represent all of the EPC.

 

[CCWoody]

Well, you should inquire from Calvinist Dark Lord. He and I share a similar background from being in Charismatic churches only to leave them over the insanity going on inside of them. And, though I have never been in a Calvinist church, and up until Tuesday night when when we gathered in the desert near Carlsbad NM I had never even shaken the hand of a Calvinist. However, Calvinist Dark Lord is Evangelical Presbyterian.

This is why I refer to myself sometimes as a
Continuationist Calvinist for my beliefs that the gifts of the Holy Spirit Endure today.
Charismatic Calvinist when it is not misunderstood.
Cordial Calvinist for being the only Calvinist in an Arminian/ Semi-Pelagian/ Peligian sea


I believe that there are Calvinist churches that still believe in the continuation of the gifts, in their proper moderation and place.

 

[AndOne]

Okay - I know I have mentioned this before - but I did get an opportunity to visit Metro Life Church in Orlando, FL earlier this summer. This church is affiliated with Soveriegn Grace Ministries - which is "die-hard" Reformed/Calvinist in teaching and Charasmatic.

Now I've only visited this one church - but the employment of the gifts was done in a very orderly and unique fashion - different from any Charasmatic/Pentacostal service I've been to.

To describe it - there was no speaking out of turn or outrageous babbling going on at all different times during the service. I saw the gifts of toungues employed in three steps. The first step I didn't get to see very well from my vantage point but from what I could tell a couple of members approached someone on the pastoral staff and let him know that they had a word and an interpretation to give. I am pretty sure that these are actually run through the pastor before being given to the congregation. Then the second step is the actual employment of the gift of toungues followed by the interpretation. In the third step (and I loved this) a scripture was read aloud to confirm and support the interpretation given.

The worship service itself is pretty contempory in its musical style - there was one song that brought tears to my eyes also - because it really focused on God's grace.

A "Soverign Grace" church might be something really looking into if you're into the whole contemporary and charasmatic worship style - yet want to get some solid reformed teaching as well. The sermon at the service that I attended was on Romans 8 - very good stuff too.

 

[ClementofRome]

Cordial Calvinist for being the only Calvinist in an Arminian/ Semi-Pelagian/ Peligian sea

I myself resemble that remark, being a Whitefield Methodist! I am certainly the only 5+ point Calvinist in my home church. However, as I teach Sunday School for the adults, they get a good dose of reformed theology on a regular basis and do not even know it!

 

[Bulldog]

I myself resemble that remark, being a Whitefield Methodist! I am certainly the only 5+ point Calvinist in my home church. However, as I teach Sunday School for the adults, they get a good dose of reformed theology on a regular basis and do not even know it!

And you haven't been caught yet?

 

[Calvinist Dark Lord]

i'd like to thank CC Woody for the reference. i have had some exposure to the E.P.C. as well. There are three separate congregations within driving distance in my particular area.

My apologies...I was not making fun of you or trolling for a debate.

The Evangelical Presbyterian Church (EPC) is open to a more charismatic expression of the Christian faith. You will not find it in all EPC churches, but you find it in many. Now as for the consistency of their Calvinism, I would have to place them a tad toward Arminianism. I only say this because of the one and only EPC church in which I have been exposed. This particular church drew many who were there for the charismatic experience and not for any specific doctrine being taught. The preaching was more geared toward experience than doctrine. However, I knew the pastor and he was a Calvinist, so to speak (at least on paper). His wife, professed to have the gift of prophecy and often alienated parishoners with her off the wall and sometimes hurtful "prophecies."

That particular church no longer exists. So, I believe that the abuses of which you previously spoke led to its demise. I am sure that it does not represent all of the EPC.

It is true that the EPC has member congretations open to the Charisma. It is also true the the EPC has member congregations that are cessationalist. There are some congregations that have the so-called "seeker sensitive" form of worship, and some among the most traditionalist in Presbyterianism.

Part of this is the fact that it took years before it was determined by the general population that EPC did not stand for Everybody Please Come. Some are beginning to find that out at the moment, and are departing for other denominations, or independent congregations...some are slow learners, and will probably leave as the EPC grows and matures (the denomination is only 24 years old), and what they consider to be right and proper passes away as the denomination goes on to maturity.

Within the EPC, and in accordance to their Book of Government, and Book of Worship, the form of the worship service is determined by the pastor of the congregation. This includes the form, how the sacriments are administered, and even the music used in the congregation. If there is blame to be levied, it starts and ends with the senior pastor of that particular congregation.

In a congregations that i once attended, the wife of the Pastor was a bit...shall we say, "positive" in her insistence that she teach every bible study going on in the church...that didn't happen, fortunately there are some non emasculated men left in that particular congregation...

The remedy was that the issue was brought before the Presbytery that congregation was a member of. Adjustments were made.

The General Assembly of the EPC has tried to steer a middle-of-the-road course through contemporary issues facing Christians, such as Woman's Ordination as Teaching and Ruling Elders (they neither mandate nor forbid, and leave the issue to the local congregation), Worship form, and so on. The reader will of course immediately realise that the only things in the middle of the road are yellow lines, and road kill...it's a good way to get run over by traffic going in either direction, and definately the WRONG place to walk.

Still, the EPC will eventually face those growing pains, and i'm hopeful that it will move on to maturity.