Just a question on the matter

[fated]

Ok. Let's pretend for a moment that some sort of deity that you people call God exists.

Do you honestly think that someone who is supposed to be *allmighty* would be superficial enough to care for what two (or more) consenting adults are doing in the privacy of their own bedroom? And that artificial, human-made institution of marriage? I think that you people (fundie/conservatives) are oversimplifying theology a little too much.

In short, let people live their lives, leave them alone and live your own lives.

The heterosexual marriage is the best ordinary institution for the procreation of children and their following formation.

Dictating standards of general well-being is a matter of public good and would have to be done in a reasonable way if the public peace was being threatened.

 

[Brieuse]

Will I get a straight answer? Just one post that makes sense, just one little post whith some evidence of rational thinking. Please?

Well, logically as the 10 commandments contain a reference to what two or more consenting adults do in the same bed, I am certain God does care regarding those activities. I also believe that God desires homosexual relationships to be moral too. Whether that makes Him superficial or not is your opinion.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Dear EnemyPartyII,

If I have already told you the answer to that question on more than one occasion before why do you still ask me? See my post to you Post #76 on 31st January 2008, 07:34 PM in the ‘re-examination of 1 Cor 6’ thread and stop trolling!

I didn’t say it did, I said it mentions men wanting sex with men and Lot saying that was wicked. Do you think men wanting sex with men is heterosexual or homosexual ? “ 2 Peter 2 refers to this, so does Jude

Nope, the word is yada, to know carnally, when Adam knew his wife Eve she conceived and bore Cain…no mention of consent. Oh sorry I forgot that is another bit of the Bible you dint believe. But the text says the men wanted sex with the men not the angels, you don’t want to acknowledge it says men not angels, again you don’t believe what the Bible says.

missing the point deliberately again? The problem wasn;t that the men of Soddom wanted to have sex with the angels/men its that they wanted to RAPE them... the RAPE is the problem

 

[EnemyPartyII]

The heterosexual marriage is the best ordinary institution for the procreation of children and their following formation.

Dictating standards of general well-being is a matter of public good and would have to be done in a reasonable way if the public peace was being threatened.

you are under the illusion that homosexual sex is about creating children?

If not, why do you keep refering to pro-creation?

 

[omarrocks]

Ok. Let's pretend for a moment that some sort of deity that you people call God exists.

Do you honestly think that someone who is supposed to be *allmighty* would be superficial enough to care for what two (or more) consenting adults are doing in the privacy of their own bedroom? And that artificial, human-made institution of marriage? I think that you people (fundie/conservatives) are oversimplifying theology a little too much.

In short, let people live their lives, leave them alone and live your own lives.

But on what grounds do you state that?

You see, you must adhere to your own standards. This is a blatant hypocrisy I find in many atheistic arguments. If you start telling us how to live our lives, then you are guilty of a double standard.



Blessings and love.

Omar

ps We don't have the mind of God, so now we can't fathom all His ways. But, if you were sure that this God was God and was Almighty, you would be sure you sought His will for your life-after all, He'll know all-and you'd make sure you'd look at His take on things, no matter how bizarre-after all-He IS Almighty.

 

[omarrocks]

normative, not proscriptive.

If you believe the Adam and Eve paradigm is the ONLY acceptible family layout, do you intend to breed with your siblings?

No. Obviously, you look at the Laws God instituted later, and integrate those. God's not a hypocrite.

Blessings and love.

Omar

 

[omarrocks]

Leviticus is irrelevant, New Covenant buddy *smiles sweetly*

No, the OT is not irrelevant, simply built upon. If Jesus was the fulfillment of the Law, then that Law is fulfilled and complete, as is God's plan, not irrelevant.

Blessings and love.

Omar

 

[omarrocks]

Um, Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed because of inhospitality, not homosexuality, THAT, is a fiction. Nice try though

So why isn't inhospitality known as "sodomy" then?



God set His judgment upon Sodom and Gomorrah because they were unrighteous beyond belief, probably beyond all others, and it wasn't simply inhospitality or homosexuality alone. In every way, these were unrighteous people, not in just the sexual areas of their lives.

Blessings and love.

Omar

 

[Brennin]

Yes. Except that, they lose the priviledge of using 3000 year old anthology of myths, put together by bronze-age goat herders, as an excuse

Another mischaracterization from you. What a surprise!

 

[jamielindas]

The meaning of marriage has changed over time. It was once about exchange of woman as if they were goods (which I see examples of in the Bible), and it has also been a alliance between families. It is no longer about that anymore.
As it currently stands, it seems to be about making a commitment to another person.
It's not about love, cuz there are loveless marriages, and it's not about children, and the fact that society doesn't do anything for loveless or childless marriages proves this.
It isn't so much about religion anymore either folks, otherwise you would be trying to invalidate or block the marriages of muslim, hindu, jewish, or atheists straight individuals.

Marriage, is a civil commitment between two consenting individuals. People CAN make it more if they like, but no one prohibits loveless/childenless marriage of convenience between two american born hindu adults, so it's not about all these things everyone keeps whining about.

It seems that some of you have a personal moral objection to homosexuality. Some of you get this from your religion, some don't. You have no right to push your personal objections up to the legislative level unless you are willing to pursue these other issues as well. Which I'm betting you aren't...

YOU may believe that marriage is sanctified by god, but the law doesn't see it that way.

 

[Brennin]

Leviticus is irrelevant, New Covenant buddy *smiles sweetly*

The New Testament condemns homoeroticism as well.

 

[Brennin]

Um, Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed because of inhospitality, not homosexuality, THAT, is a fiction. Nice try though

Not according to the New Testament:

Jude
7Likewise, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which, in the same manner as they, indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural lust, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.

 

[BreadAlone]

Not according to the New Testament:

Jude
7Likewise, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which, in the same manner as they, indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural lust, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.

 

[Wednesday]

Another mischaracterization from you. What a surprise!

Please explain carefully to me, which part of my statement is mischaracterization in your opinion. I want to know.

 

[jamielindas]

Is it me or are we still missing the point that the law isn't a reflection of your religious beliefs?...

 

[Wednesday]

Not according to the New Testament:

Jude
7Likewise, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which, in the same manner as they, indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural lust, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.

According to the lack of any evidence, there is no credible, proof that Sodom and Gomorrah even existed, let alone was destroyed by IPU.

As for Leviticus.

Don't let cattle graze with other kinds of Cattle (Leviticus 19:19)
Don't have a variety of crops on the same field. (Leviticus 19:19)
Don't wear clothes made of more than one fabric (Leviticus 19:19)
Don't cut your hair nor shave. (Leviticus 19:27)
Any person who curseth his mother or father, must be killed. (Leviticus 20:9) Have you ever done that?
If a man cheats on his wife, or vise versa, both the man and the woman must die. (Leviticus 20:10). I wonder if Dr. Laura would like that one to be enforced?
If a man sleeps with his father's wife... both him and his father's wife is to be put to death. (Leviticus 20:11)
If a man sleeps with his wife and her mother they are all to be burnt to death. (Leviticus 20:14)
If a man or woman has sex with an animal, both human and animal must be killed. (Leviticus 20:15-16). I guess you should kill the animal since they were willing participants. Are they crazy?
If a man has sex with a woman on her period, they are both to be "cut off from their people" (Leviticus 20:18)
Psychics, wizards, and so on are to be stoned to death. (Leviticus 20:27)
If a priest's daughter is a harlot, she is to be burnt at the stake. (Leviticus 21:9)
People who have flat noses, or is blind or lame, cannot go to an altar of God (Leviticus 21:17-18)
Anyone who curses or blasphemes God, should be stoned to death by the community. (Leviticus 24:14-16)
Don't let cattle graze with other kinds of Cattle (Leviticus 19:19)​

Do you do everything above, do you put people to death if they break a rule?

 

[Brennin]

Please explain carefully to me, which part of my statement is mischaracterization in your opinion. I want to know.

Your characterization of the various authors of the Bible as "bronze age goat herders," obviously.

 

[Wednesday]

So you admit that there were authors of the bible, plural?

I mean with such number of various authors of the bible, what evidence do you have that it is a word of God. Evidence, please?

 

[EnemyPartyII]

No. Obviously, you look at the Laws God instituted later, and integrate those. God's not a hypocrite.

Blessings and love.

Omar

If God REALLY intended to dictate morality to humans, Adam and Eve would have been created along with the 10 commandments.

It didn't happen that way.

Thus, Mosaic law is a codification of existing, contemporary morality. Morality does NOT decend from Mosaic Law.

Want proof? Hamurabi's Code predates Moses.

God set His judgment upon Sodom and Gomorrah because they were unrighteous beyond belief, probably beyond all others, and it wasn't simply inhospitality or homosexuality alone. In every way, these were unrighteous people, not in just the sexual areas of their lives.

And is that a Biblical teaching, or just what you find convenient to believe to shore up you a priori position?

 

[EnemyPartyII]

The New Testament condemns homoeroticism as well.

depends who you ask. Jesus certainly doesn't.