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Just a Matter of Time
- Thread starter Contented
- Start date
Women have certain roles to play within the church, prophet among them, but clergy isn't. It's no different than the role mean and women were made to play in the family unit... we can see the results of bucking that trend and were it's gotten our society.
We may not always understand or even agree with the way God wants things to be but we should definitely heed it... or suffer the consequences.
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is that a general rule? I think in Germany they had female pastors in the SDA even a long time ago... maybe that was the exception to the rule...
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SoldierOfTheKing
Christian Spenglerian
- Jan 6, 2006
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I think there are congregations with female pastors, but the General Conference doesn't recognize their ordinations.
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I could care less what the conferences do, have done or will do... they are men. I care about what the Bible and SOP says....
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You would do well to read the articles that people post if you are going to give a response... you poke at David Conklin for his voracious reading, you might consider doing some yourself.
Here is a C&P from the article Contented linked to...
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O
OntheDL
Guest
'...for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.'
I ask, 'ordained by whom? By men or by God?'
I ask, 'ordained by whom? By men or by God?'
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What are you quoting from Ricker?
As for sister Whites role... she gave inspired counsel but never had any authority, other than the conviction through the Holy Spirit.
If she was so powerful in the church, why did she allow them to essentially exile her to Australia when they did not want to hear her words of reproof?
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ricker
Regular Member
Sorry, 1 Timothy 2:11 and 12. What Bible verses do you use to establish your belief that women shouldn't be pastors?
You are saying Mrs. White had no authority in the forming of Adventist doctrine? She never taught with her visions, or numerous books translated into how many languages? She was considered just an adviser with no authority? That is rich. You have a fundamental belief just about her authority in your doctrine!
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I meant that her writings were divinely authoritative but not her. She never held any posotion within the church that gave her authority...
To your first question...
1 Timothy 3:2
A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
1 Tim 3:5
(For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
Also 1 Tim 3:10-12 speaks the same of deacons and specifically seperates the men being deacons with their responsibilities and the women theirs.
We also have the example that Jesus gave us in the choosing of the apostles.... Jesus had many disciples, many women and many of these women Jesus held in the highest regard, but when it came to whom He sent forth, He chose men. Also notice there weren't even any couples that went out, but men, sometimes in teams. See 1 Tim 2:7 for ordination of apostles.
Do you think it's ok for a woman to take the headship of the house, as is the case in so many families today? I'm not talking about single moms but of married couples..
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I'm not sure what version you used for your quotes but here is the passage in it's entirely from the KJV
1 Tim 2:11-15
Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
I know the above verses seem derogatory and unacceptable in today's world but here Timothy is specifically noting that following the model in Eden and because it was the woman that caused the man to fall, that the man shall be the head of the woman. It also states that her divine responsibility is in childbearing (and by reason, childrearing). Sister White has quite a bit to say on the responsibilty and blessing to mothers in training a child.
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now would you say that in regard to the above quote, was ellen just a prophet who mediated between God and men through her writings, and thus all of her writings were prophetic in nature and never she herself speaking..
can any of her writings be classified as teachings? what about her numerable advices? was she speaking by herself?
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ricker
Regular Member
I use the NIV because it is easy for me to understand. (I have a NKJ I read sometimes, also). I was at a SDA Bible study about 5 years ago and noticed that is what version most of them were using, also.
EllenWhite had no position of authority, but her writings are " a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction "? OK..........
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Good question...
Not all of her writings were prophetic of course but I believe they were divinely inspired. Did she teach? I guess it depends on your definition of teaching... she gave counsel as it was given her. I don't believe, personally, that all that she said is to be followed verbatim without discernment. Take the health message, she gave very specific counsel on that subject but also tempered it by saying it wasn't to be used as a test of fellowship.
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Now, please, dont get me wrong, I dont really want to start another debate about her, but since the topic came up and headed into this direction...
Personally I have a feeling as if she was in fact 'teaching', thats how I always understood it, of course my feelings and thoughts are definitely not authoritative, I understand that...
but then when I think about a prophet, I imagine somebody who would bring a prophecy, like a direct message, and when you think about those OT prophets, most of what they brought along was very hard to understand, yet it was to be fulfilled. LIke they didnt say that God would send his son to die on the cross for our sins, rather did they cover it up, (I hope you will agree with me here), so we find many bits and pieces regarding Jesus in different books of the bible written by different people (prophets).
Now EGW as such never came along with a prophecy of that kind (you may correct me here, as I have definitely not read all of her works), what she did, was present in actually plain english what happened in the past and basically gave mostly interpretations of the bible (of course by claiming divine inspiration) and moreover her future predictions were also quite specific, at least the ones that were not fulfilled yet,
but back to the teaching, so when I think about all those books then I see that mostly her interpretations which supposedly have divine origin are there to teach me, to teach me how to understand the bible... moreover her counsels are also there to teach me... now think about that masturbation thing! in what way does her teaching on that differ from the way Paul teaches in the bible (except for some clear discrepancies which of course are subject to personal interpretation) and many of the councels that I have read are somewhat binding, I mean, she wrote not to play chess or checkers or read fiction, in what way were the so-called councels optional, IMHO a teaching is showing somebody the right way. and her councels definitely were not meant to be optional, I mean whats the purpose of having a councel speaking against checkers (which is really some sort of a kids game) and on the other it doesnt do any harm if you actually play it, excuse me but it makes no sense, and the fact that people nowadays, try to bring the whole thing into context doesnt really help a lot because it cause more division than unity again...
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ricker
Regular Member
Adventist's own fundamental beliefs state that her writings are:
" a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction "
Saying she is was/is not a teacher, or authoratative in the SDA church is quite silly in light of this statement. I can't believe there is even any question or debate about the subject.
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E.T.Elijah
Brother In Christ
Well, my personal feeling on the subject, is that had the men of the church stood there ground and rose to the challenge, then women would not have to fill those roles. I am not going against Biblical teaching, but at the same time we have examples within the Bible where a woman has performed the tasks that were given men to do. I always think of Deborah the Judge. I think this is more indicative of the church in this day and age. There is a desperate need for godly men to step up and take an active role in the work of the Lord at the laity level. Most of the active members of the church (at least in my church) seem to be women. They are the ones leading out in prayer meetings and Bible studies. With the exception of myself, our co-pastor (whose wife is the other co-pastor), and their son; we are in a great need for men to become active. Maybe it is a little different in my church because we have no paid pastor. We are strickly a lay planted and lay led church. We have no paid leadership within our church. I don't know. But what I do know is that God will call whomever will answer and follow to accomplish His work.
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