Judgment after being saved? Need input here!

[steven4christ]

Hi, I'm a Christian I know after accepting Christ your sins are washed away completely, but what about the a man that kills and molests children all his life and then on his death bed repents and recieves Christ? We know that he gets out of internal damnation through Christ, but does he face any judgement at all???

 

[Nice Dream]

Matthew 20: 1-16:

[size=+0]The Kingdom of Heaven is like this. There was once a land-owner who went out early one morning to hire laborers for his vineyard; and after agreeing to pay them the usual day’s wage he sent then off to work. Going out three hours later he saw some more men standing idle in the market place. "Go and join the others in the vineyard," he said, "and I will pay you a fair wage"; so off they went. At midday he went out again, and at three in the afternoon, and made the same arrangement as before. An hour before sunset he went out and found another group standing there; so he said to them, "Why are you standing about like this all day with nothing to do?" "Because no one hired us", they replied; so he told them, "Go and join the others in the vineyard" When evening fell ... those who had started work an hour before sunset came forward, and were paid the full day’s wage. When it was the turn of the men who had come first, they expected something extra, but were paid the same amount as the others. As they took it, they grumbled at their employer ... But he replied... Why be jealous because I am kind? Thus will the last be first, and the first last.

It is not by works that we are saved, but by God's grace. We are equal in Christ. The Father draws us to him so he must have reason for drawing someone at that time rather than earlier. I'm sorry i couldn't answer more fully. It will be interesting to watch the development of this thread.[/size]
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[Airdude]

No sin is greater than another in God's eyes. Through God's Grace the sinner in your example will stand blameless at the judgement.

 

[Nice Dream]

Did you not read the part where i said. '[size=+0]I'm sorry i couldn't answer more fully.' ? I never once said anyone would remain blameless. Everyone is guilty of sin. It is by God's grace we are forgiven, not by anything else. There are sins worse than others it says this clearly on many occasions in the bible, but aren't we all forgiven of sin through Jesus? [/size]
Romans 8:1 'Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus'
Maybe i took what you posted completely wrongly, if i did i apologize.

 

[Monica02]

Hi, I'm a Christian I know after accepting Christ your sins are washed away completely, but what about the a man that kills and molests children all his life and then on his death bed repents and recieves Christ? We know that he gets out of internal damnation through Christ, but does he face any judgement at all???

If the man dies with his mortal sins forgiven then he will go to Heaven, perhaps via Purgatory.

 

[Stinker]

Hi, I'm a Christian I know after accepting Christ your sins are washed away completely, but what about the a man that kills and molests children all his life and then on his death bed repents and recieves Christ? We know that he gets out of internal damnation through Christ, but does he face any judgement at all???

If a person rejects the Gospel all throughout their life, and then in the last moment wants to take out Fire Insurance, that is not the demonstration of belief shown throughout the New Testament. That is the demonstration of sinful fear. This is the kind of person that if they recover from their deathbed, quickly forget about their having 'received Christ' and carry on business as usual.

 

[Johnnz]

We all face judgement for our sins - what separates us all from a holy God. That judgement has been met by Christ.

But, we also face God's judgement on our faithfullness to what He has given us - our lives, talents, gifts etc. This will have some bearing on our function in heaven.

John
NZ

 

[steven4christ]

If a person rejects the Gospel all throughout their life, and then in the last moment wants to take out Fire Insurance, that is not the demonstration of belief shown throughout the New Testament. That is the demonstration of sinful fear. This is the kind of person that if they recover from their deathbed, quickly forget about their having 'received Christ' and carry on business as usual.

I agree with what your saying, I guess only the Lord knows a persons heart.

 

[Nice Dream]

If a person rejects the Gospel all throughout their life, and then in the last moment wants to take out Fire Insurance, that is not the demonstration of belief shown throughout the New Testament. That is the demonstration of sinful fear. This is the kind of person that if they recover from their deathbed, quickly forget about their having 'received Christ' and carry on business as usual.

I agree this might well be the case in some situations but no one knows what's in a persons heart but God in the last moments of their life.

 

[Nice Dream]

I was just thinking of the theif who was being executed next to Jesus.

One of the criminals who was hanged insulted him, saying, "If you are the Christ, save yourself and us!"
But the other answered, and rebuking him said, "Don't you even fear God, seeing you are under the same condemnation? And we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward for our deeds, but this man has done nothing wrong." He said to Jesus, "Lord, remember me when you come into your Kingdom."
Jesus said to him, "Assuredly I tell you, today you will be with me in Paradise."

The Lord forgave him said that he would be in paradise with him on that very day. Jesus took the man's sins upon Him and forgave him without judgement. This is the best example of the Lord's great grace towards those who repent and turn to him in their final hours.

 

[Monica02]

I was just thinking of the theif who was being executed next to Jesus.

One of the criminals who was hanged insulted him, saying, "If you are the Christ, save yourself and us!"
But the other answered, and rebuking him said, "Don't you even fear God, seeing you are under the same condemnation? And we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward for our deeds, but this man has done nothing wrong." He said to Jesus, "Lord, remember me when you come into your Kingdom."
Jesus said to him, "Assuredly I tell you, today you will be with me in Paradise."

The Lord forgave him said that he would be in paradise with him on that very day. Jesus took the man's sins upon Him and forgave him without judgement. This is the best example of the Lord's great grace towards those who repent and turn to him in their final hours.

A very good point!

 

[Viva]

Excellent question:

It is not possible for an evil child molester to accept Christ on his death bed. We love God because He first loved us (1st John).

So your question is wrong. Rather your question should be:

Would God choose a Child Molester on His death bed?

Possibly - but probably not.

Viva

 

[Elect]

Hi, I'm a Christian I know after accepting Christ your sins are washed away completely, but what about the a man that kills and molests children all his life and then on his death bed repents and recieves Christ? We know that he gets out of internal damnation through Christ, but does he face any judgement at all???

The judgement Seat of Christ that the believer will stand at deals with the loss or gaining of reward based on our works and not on our sin or salvation. Salvation is of the Lord. The believers sin was judged at the cross. God's righteousness was imputed to us and we are justified by faith and by faith alone in Jesus Christ. Nothing that is defiled will enter the Kingdom of God so all sin has already been done away with for the believer. It is God who justifies the ungodly! The believers will not be in the judgement of the wicked.

 

[Viva]

Elect,

I already answered your question. A child molester or evil criminal CANNOT just choose to accept Christ on his or her own volition. God has to choose that person first.

Yes, it is possible, but if a person is evil all their lives, they mostly likely will go to hell. There are rare exceptions to that rule (theif on the Cross) but generally it doesn't work that way.

*****You've asked the question incorrectly*****

Viva

 

[Elect]

Elect,

I already answered your question. A child molester or evil criminal CANNOT just choose to accept Christ on his or her own volition. God has to choose that person first.

Yes, it is possible, but if a person is evil all their lives, they mostly likely will go to hell. There are rare exceptions to that rule (theif on the Cross) but generally it doesn't work that way.

*****You've asked the question incorrectly*****

Viva

What question did I ask?

 

[bethdinsmore]

amen to #7 reply - to expand a bit, there are two final judgments, one for believers and one for non-believers.
Believers go to the Judgment Seat of Christ, where their works are judged in order to receive rewards in Heaven, not punishment. ( "There is now therefore no more condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus" Romans 8:1)
Non-believers go to the Great White Throne Judgment, where their works are judged in order to receive appropriate punishment in Hell.

Secondly, what is saving faith? in salvation verses, the Greek for believe is "to trust in or rely upon". As in John 3:16, Acts 16:31 - to trust in Christ's death on the cross to pay for all sins (I Peter 3:18) and to get us to Heaven one day, without any good works on our own (Ephesians 2:8-9). In other words, "faith alone in Christ alone plus nothing". And we cannot lose our salvation (see gift in Rom. 6:23 & 11:29, also John 10:28-29 - we can't even take ourselves out of God's hand). So, if the worst sinner in the world made that decision on his deathbed, he will have a home in Heaven. If he should recover and continue sinning, he would be punished by his heavenly Father, but he would still go to Heaven when he died, because he cannot lose his salvation.

Two common errors about works are:
1. incorrect understanding of repentence in salvation verses - in those, the Greek meaning is "to change one's mind", not to be sorry for or to turn from sin (both good things to do once a person is saved)
2. "lordship salvation" - adding to Christ's work on the cross by thinking that we need to be good or promise to be good in order to be saved. Those things actually come after salvation if the person is willing, and are called discipleship. A person can be a Christian without being a disciple, but cannot be a disciple without first having become a Christian.

Hope all this doctrine makes sense. Know it can be dry as dust.

Aloha in Christ, Cathy

 

[1stebooks]

Christ is the great judge of the dead. And no unclean thing can enter into the kingdom of heaven. Christ will judge us according to the thoughts and the intentions of our hearts. It is not for us to judge who will make it to heaven and who will not. You mentioned the child molestor and death bed repentance. Christ will look at his thoughts and his intentions. He will determine if this person truly believes in his words, if he has truly repented for his sins, and he will grant salvation to those whom he deems worthy. Christ is the only one that saves. I can't imagine a just God that would accept someone that goes throughout life thinking this, "Well I am going to have my fun, I am going to commit all the horrible sins of child molestation and in the end, I will just repent and be saved." However, I do believe that if someone honestly feels pain, sorrow, regret and a desire that change and become a better person, that Christ will work with them, since they have a sincere desire to do right. Do you see the difference? This is what my heart tells me is right!

 

[Mr.Cheese]

Some things are between a person and God.
Often "what if" questions are such instances.

 

[bethdinsmore]

I repeat:
Quote: "1. incorrect understanding of repentance in salvation verses - in those, the Greek meaning is "to change one's mind", not to be sorry for or to turn from sin (both good things to do once a person is saved)"

It is so easy to get confused about this, because today's dictionaries would define repentance as something like "to be sorry for or to turn from sin". The thing we have to watch out for is to stick with the origional meaning of the word when it was first penned by the writers of the Bible when they dealt with salvation. The Gospel of John never even uses the word. I am not making all this up - this is common conservative evangelical teaching in Greek, and could be checked out on various websites. An excellent and scholarly one is www.faithalone.org/journal/1991i/wilkin.html

Finally, I'll give an example of biblical repentance (to change one's mind) and salvation, in the hopes of making this clearer:
Joe changed his mind about salvation - he used to think a person was saved by works, but then he changed his mind and realized a person must make the decision to trust in Christ alone and His work on the cross.

 

[Athanasian Creed]

No sin is greater than another in God's eyes.

Actually, though a lot of Christians believe this, it isn't true. Christ said so Himself -

Matthew 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

Also, somewhat referring to the above verse about blasphemy against the Spirit, in 1 John it talks about a "sin unto death" -

1 John 5:16-17 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
There is a sin unto death; that is, there is an extreme of inveterate and outrageous hostility to God, which transcends all bounds, and leaves no hope of reformation and pardon. This most solemn declaration of the apostle corresponds with what the Savior expressly taught, and what his terrible denunciations against hardened and determined offenders often implied. (Compare Mt 12:31-32 (above mentioned verse); Mr 3:28-30; Mt 23:29-36, and Cmt. on Mt 12:31.) Abbott New Testament Commentary

And also,

John 19:11 Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.


So there is sins deemed "greater" sins than others according to God the Son. To say that murder is not a greater sin than stealing a piece of bubble gum is irrational and unbiblical.


Ray