Judgement

[ValleyGal]

My son was a very young child when my first husband ran away from home. He accused me (falsely) of having an affair. I didn't, but he did not believe me and he left anyway. A couple of years later he wanted to reconcile, so I tried, but then decided we had grown too far apart and I did not approve of his parenting style (he figured it was okay to spank a baby silly until said baby would go to sleep - imo, it was abusive to baby). All around that time, I felt the stigma of single parenting. I believe the stigma still exists - that single moms will just keep on pumping out babies so they can stay on welfare. It was totally a mischaracterization of me and my situation. I felt judged and I was angry about how people would believe the lies - my ex believing his own lie rather than the truth, and being judged based on the lie of a stereotype. It was painful and I was hurt and angry as a result. I know what it's like to be falsely accused.

Years later, I married a man who worked at my church. He beat me three times in the first month, and it escalated very quickly - the last time he could easily have killed me, so I divorced him immediately. The church knew he had beaten me, and did not discipline him at all. In fact, they told me that if I feel unsafe, I am the one who needed to go and find a new church.

I take it very, very personally when people talk about divorce as though it is not an option for Christian marriages. I become very angry that I am accused and judged as someone who has done something that God hates, and I hate that people are judging - another thing that God warns us not to do. I have been judged as someone who is now - because I am currently in the most blessed marriage I've ever been in - living in a constant state of adultery. I've been told I need to repent, even though my relationship with God is almost the best it's ever been (there was one period where it was a little better than it is now). God has blessed me with and in my current marriage.

But people judge. I am passionate about precious few things in life, but I burn with anger when people judge others for believing divorce is not an option. If it were not an option for me, and likely for 90% of divorced people out there, we would have a LOT of very lonely, sad, and broken people out there...people who would be condemned to stay in marriages that would keep them in their brokenness.

But God's plan is healing. It's why Jesus came and died for us. He died so that we can be healed from sin, and yes, from marital sin and judgement and condemnation. Divorce is one of the ways God helps us to heal. But there are those who judge and judge and judge, quoting scripture that is not even in context. And I burn with anger because they take all that healing that God has done by sending Jesus to die for us and they destroy the work of Jesus by heaping their condemnation, resulting in a lot of people who are again left broken. What is their purpose? I don't know....all I know is that it's just not God's intention to treat people this way. It breaks my heart, the judgements they make on people who are already hurting. It adds insult to injury, embitters people and makes for a very very poor testament to the love of the Lord Jesus. How can they not see the detrimental effects their judgements have on others???

I don't get it.

 

[Inkachu]

I think some people are genuinely reflecting what they believe is true and right in God's eyes. Even if they're mistaken. I can't fault someone for sticking to their convictions, even if I think they're wrong. Many times these people will "agree to disagree" and you can maintain a level of respect and civility even while expressing vastly different views.

But then you've got people who want to argue for the sake of arguing. People who can't stand to be wrong. People who think they have the monopoly on morality and wisdom, and everyone else needs to "benefit" from them. People who don't grasp the difference between "disagree" and "condescend". People who treat you like you're an idiot if you don't see things the way they do.

Both groups of people might hold exactly the same views. It's how they approach others, how they disagree, how they handle their own opinions, that makes all the difference.

I've never been divorced, but I was a single, unwed mother, and I faced my own share of slander and downright hateful garbage. You're in good company, VG.

 

[ValleyGal]

Yes, I think you're right...condescending might be a better word than judgement. It's the attitude that goes with the judgement, like being better than those of us who have been divorced (or single parent, or otherwise "sinner" in their eyes). Imo, it's the sin of pride, which is certainly no better than what they think of as a "sin" of divorce.

There are ways to build walls between people, and there are ways to tear the walls down and build rapport. Some people are insistent on building walls, when they don't consider the nature of what it means to be truly human, to acknowledge the human plight, to relate to those who are marginalized because their own lives are oh, so perfect. Imo, they miss out on a treasure trove of wealth by elevating their status above us common sinners, and don't even realize the judgement they call on themselves as a result.

I wish it did not make me so angry...why do I get so angry over it? ... because I perceive it as an injustice? Is it justice that I'm passionate about? Humility? Empathizing with the human plight? Being misunderstood?

This has brought on a whole introspective process. I hope I don't come across that way. If I do, my whole career identity will be shaken because my career is all about the human plight, all about the human experience, relationships, personal growth, being on the journey and how to make the most of the journey. It's all about relating with clients, and coming alongside them, understanding them and supporting them. *sigh* now I need to go and introspect for a while.

 

[Inkachu]

LOL @ needing to go introspect for a while

I don't think you come across as condescending or judging at all, VG. I don't agree with everything you say, but I've never thought you were mean or harsh or short-sighted in stuff that you post. In fact, you're vastly more patient with trying to explain your point of view than I would be sometimes

 

[ValleyGal]

Thank you, Inka, I appreciate your thoughts. It's okay to disagree....variety is the spice of life. Sometimes the spices in my diet are enough to cause indigestion. lol.
Hugs to you!

 

[Inkachu]

You're welcome! The word that always comes to mind when I think of you is "diplomatic". That should tell you something

 

[Odetta]

I think all the divorce threads have gotten very legalistic. God doesn't like divorce. I don't think anyone really likes divorce, but it happens for various reasons. Debating whether it's biblical or not, whether someone should be allowed to remarry, when such things are acceptable or justified, etc. - to me it's all legalism. What one person does about divorce and remarriage is between that person and God, really.

That is not to say I don't have personal opinions on divorce, because I do. But it's not up to me to decide for someone else what they should do.

I personally have not been divorced, and don't plan on it happening. But my parents are divorced, and both remarried. And I have friends who have been in the same situation. My prayer for them is that they be at peace with God about it.

 

[Autumnleaf]

Divorce is an option in many situations. In other cases it might be better to call child protective services or the police if violence is going on. If violence is going on and you don't involve the authorities then you sort of set the next unsuspecting person up for what you just dealt with. That seems like a nasty thing to do.

 

[ValleyGal]

Odetta,
I fully agree about the legalism. It becomes about law rather than character. Relationship with God is what matters...and if the person is walking in step with the Spirit, they will follow those convictions.

In my last marriage, I learned a little about the love ethic. I could not love him or myself within the marriage. I vowed to love him....and the best thing I could do for him was divorce him so that he would not find me a stumbling block to beat up every week. It was far more loving to both of us to divorce. If some people condemn me for a loving motive, that is an injustice....

AL,
Set the next unsuspecting person up? Hmm. Husband 1 has been married for the last 15 years and has several more children now. They had some hard times, but to my knowledge, they managed to work them through and are still together - granted, I've had no contact with him for the last 7 years. Husband 2 was divorced for a decade before me; I had no idea what he was up to since I was in hiding. Apparently he married a Russian mail-order bride and I have no idea if he beats her or not.

And my exes certainly didn't "set up the next unsuspecting person." My husband and I are amazing together. Just because I was not good with the last one, doesn't mean I'm not a great match with the one I have now. Same with them.

The whole concept of boundaries is that I am not responsible for what happens in relationships my exes have when ours is over. I'm not responsible for how they conduct themselves. However, I did call the police on him for one of the beatings, and saw the doctor....the pictures of the bruises are all on file, etc. I went into hiding and do not know if he was ever charged. And with the first husband who spanked our child repeatedly for not going to sleep...our divorce order stated he had to have supervised visits, but he never exercised his visitation rights. I do not know what kind of parent he is with his other children. It's not my worry. It's his current wife's worry.

 

[Autumnleaf]

AL,
Set the next unsuspecting person up? Hmm. Husband 1 has been married for the last 15 years and has several more children now. They had some hard times, but to my knowledge, they managed to work them through and are still together - granted, I've had no contact with him for the last 7 years. Husband 2 was divorced for a decade before me; I had no idea what he was up to since I was in hiding. Apparently he married a Russian mail-order bride and I have no idea if he beats her or not.

And my exes certainly didn't "set up the next unsuspecting person." My husband and I are amazing together. Just because I was not good with the last one, doesn't mean I'm not a great match with the one I have now. Same with them.

The whole concept of boundaries is that I am not responsible for what happens in relationships my exes have when ours is over. I'm not responsible for how they conduct themselves. However, I did call the police on him for one of the beatings, and saw the doctor....the pictures of the bruises are all on file, etc. I went into hiding and do not know if he was ever charged. And with the first husband who spanked our child repeatedly for not going to sleep...our divorce order stated he had to have supervised visits, but he never exercised his visitation rights. I do not know what kind of parent he is with his other children. It's not my worry. It's his current wife's worry.

We are responsible both for what we do, and what we don't do. Regardless of what man made paperwork says.

If I know someone is a danger to society and I don't stand up to them with the legal system, then I am enabling them to keep doing whatever they are doing. By standing up to them with the law I at least do my part in trying to get them help and helping those who they will come into contact with in the future.

Who is my neighbor?

 

[Lotuspetal_uk]

My son was a very young child when my first husband ran away from home. He accused me (falsely) of having an affair. I didn't, but he did not believe me and he left anyway. A couple of years later he wanted to reconcile, so I tried, but then decided we had grown too far apart and I did not approve of his parenting style (he figured it was okay to spank a baby silly until said baby would go to sleep - imo, it was abusive to baby). All around that time, I felt the stigma of single parenting. I believe the stigma still exists - that single moms will just keep on pumping out babies so they can stay on welfare. It was totally a mischaracterization of me and my situation. I felt judged and I was angry about how people would believe the lies - my ex believing his own lie rather than the truth, and being judged based on the lie of a stereotype. It was painful and I was hurt and angry as a result. I know what it's like to be falsely accused.

Years later, I married a man who worked at my church. He beat me three times in the first month, and it escalated very quickly - the last time he could easily have killed me, so I divorced him immediately. The church knew he had beaten me, and did not discipline him at all. In fact, they told me that if I feel unsafe, I am the one who needed to go and find a new church.

I take it very, very personally when people talk about divorce as though it is not an option for Christian marriages. I become very angry that I am accused and judged as someone who has done something that God hates, and I hate that people are judging - another thing that God warns us not to do. I have been judged as someone who is now - because I am currently in the most blessed marriage I've ever been in - living in a constant state of adultery. I've been told I need to repent, even though my relationship with God is almost the best it's ever been (there was one period where it was a little better than it is now). God has blessed me with and in my current marriage.

But people judge. I am passionate about precious few things in life, but I burn with anger when people judge others for believing divorce is not an option. If it were not an option for me, and likely for 90% of divorced people out there, we would have a LOT of very lonely, sad, and broken people out there...people who would be condemned to stay in marriages that would keep them in their brokenness.

But God's plan is healing. It's why Jesus came and died for us. He died so that we can be healed from sin, and yes, from marital sin and judgement and condemnation. Divorce is one of the ways God helps us to heal. But there are those who judge and judge and judge, quoting scripture that is not even in context. And I burn with anger because they take all that healing that God has done by sending Jesus to die for us and they destroy the work of Jesus by heaping their condemnation, resulting in a lot of people who are again left broken. What is their purpose? I don't know....all I know is that it's just not God's intention to treat people this way. It breaks my heart, the judgements they make on people who are already hurting. It adds insult to injury, embitters people and makes for a very very poor testament to the love of the Lord Jesus. How can they not see the detrimental effects their judgements have on others???

I don't get it.

A big Amen.

 

[Lotuspetal_uk]

My son was a very young child when my first husband ran away from home. He accused me (falsely) of having an affair. I didn't, but he did not believe me and he left anyway. A couple of years later he wanted to reconcile, so I tried, but then decided we had grown too far apart and I did not approve of his parenting style (he figured it was okay to spank a baby silly until said baby would go to sleep - imo, it was abusive to baby). All around that time, I felt the stigma of single parenting. I believe the stigma still exists - that single moms will just keep on pumping out babies so they can stay on welfare. It was totally a mischaracterization of me and my situation. I felt judged and I was angry about how people would believe the lies - my ex believing his own lie rather than the truth, and being judged based on the lie of a stereotype. It was painful and I was hurt and angry as a result. I know what it's like to be falsely accused.

Years later, I married a man who worked at my church. He beat me three times in the first month, and it escalated very quickly - the last time he could easily have killed me, so I divorced him immediately. The church knew he had beaten me, and did not discipline him at all. In fact, they told me that if I feel unsafe, I am the one who needed to go and find a new church.

I take it very, very personally when people talk about divorce as though it is not an option for Christian marriages. I become very angry that I am accused and judged as someone who has done something that God hates, and I hate that people are judging - another thing that God warns us not to do. I have been judged as someone who is now - because I am currently in the most blessed marriage I've ever been in - living in a constant state of adultery. I've been told I need to repent, even though my relationship with God is almost the best it's ever been (there was one period where it was a little better than it is now). God has blessed me with and in my current marriage.

But people judge. I am passionate about precious few things in life, but I burn with anger when people judge others for believing divorce is not an option. If it were not an option for me, and likely for 90% of divorced people out there, we would have a LOT of very lonely, sad, and broken people out there...people who would be condemned to stay in marriages that would keep them in their brokenness.

But God's plan is healing. It's why Jesus came and died for us. He died so that we can be healed from sin, and yes, from marital sin and judgement and condemnation. Divorce is one of the ways God helps us to heal. But there are those who judge and judge and judge, quoting scripture that is not even in context. And I burn with anger because they take all that healing that God has done by sending Jesus to die for us and they destroy the work of Jesus by heaping their condemnation, resulting in a lot of people who are again left broken. What is their purpose? I don't know....all I know is that it's just not God's intention to treat people this way. It breaks my heart, the judgements they make on people who are already hurting. It adds insult to injury, embitters people and makes for a very very poor testament to the love of the Lord Jesus. How can they not see the detrimental effects their judgements have on others???

I don't get it.

VG I just had to step away from the forums a little before replying but I wanted to thank you for your post.

Like you, I witnessed my older child failing miserably under the kind of abuse that I myself went through at the hands of my ex. It still angers me when I read people saying it's our responsibility to stay or whatever with an abuser in order to save another 'victim' or in order to not divorce. This is something that will take a long time for me to not react angrily to. I commend you for being able to calmly articulate what survivors of abuse go through.

Some people here forget that it is not a first choice decision to get to the point of divorce and they do not appreciate the scale of pain with us beating ourselves up over and over before coming to the point of divorce. Divorce is regretful last resort after exhausting all other avenues and not something that one should just jump into. The ramifications of it are too far reaching.

The first thing I had to do when I went for divorce in the end was to seek the Lord's forgiveness. I felt that as a believer I had let Him down, that I didn't believe that He was capable of bringing me through it. But I could not wait until my daughter began self harming or that both of my kids witnessed me getting hit. So by seeking the Lord's forgiveness, I had to get through this emotion of self condemnation in order for the Lord to heal and deliver so that I could get the strength to run away from my ex and rebuild the kids lives.

Though I have regret for a failed marriage, every day that I watch HRH and MC I can only thank God that I see how much HRH is back to her joyful, happy self. She is excelling at school now, she is not bound by fear, she is free to express herself and learn and be guided and more importantly, she is free to pray to the One who never left nor forsook her.

I don't think I ever shared this here but HRH gave her heart to the Lord whilst I was still married and we were both so scared to share this with her islamist father because she thought he was going to kill me. She cried (yep memories still hurt - welling up) at a time in her life when she should have been the most happy. But some people here reckon I should have remained in that.

So to summarise I just wanted to encourage you and thank you for sharing what you did. There are a significant amount of people who lurk these forums and may not be allowed to contribute but within the marriage forum area, I felt at times you were hard done by when in actual fact you were one of the few who understood those of us who have to make such extremely tough decision.

I also wanted to thank those of you who are married that you took the decision to not continue with the 'divorce debate' into this divorce area but that you guys kept this place for those of us to pray, and encourage those experiencing the difficult process of divorce. God is good.

May the Lord abundantly continue to bless and keep you sis.

 

[ValleyGal]

Lotus, you are so brave in sharing what you did. Thank you. It is plainly still on your mind and heart, and I pray the Lord's favor in your life, for remaining faithful to God. It is painful when we are judged for our pasts, when the Lord Jesus challenged those about to stone a woman for her "past" - and they all dropped their stones. So even if divorce and remarriage were a sin, we should still not be subject to judgement.

Imo, there are a few reasons people stay married:
- they both happily conform to each other to create a good marriage
- one of them is happy, but the other is unhappy but they think they have to stay
- one is happy but the other is being abused and manipulated into staying
- both are unhappy but both want out
- both are gearing up for divorce
- they are fairly newly married and are unaware of the realities of long term marriage

Imo, it's those in the first and last categories - and one in the second point - who tend to make the most judgements about people who divorce. Of course, there are some in those categories who do not judge, and may heaven bless them for it. But for those who do, I think they are too naive to either understand the realities of marriage, or too naive to understand that not all people or marriages can be like theirs.

Divorce is painful for the spouses, the children, the extended families, their friends, their churches and communities, and ultimately, the world's resources. But I honestly don't think anyone who gets married, does it thinking that they will one day get divorced.

I've used an analogy of surgeries to describe divorce. The two become one - yes, they do - but divorce is the surgery of one becoming two again, like conjoined twins, or like a major amputation. One or both can (and do) survive it, but it leaves them with scars. I've experienced this twice before - once with first husband, and once with boyfriend (not second husband) who died. Death was far more painful to deal with than divorce, and we were together, not married, for half the length of time I had been married to my first husband. But it can be done....and my spirit is intact. It was broken for a while each time, but a person's spirit can become broken over things other than loss due to divorce or death. But my broken spirit was my sacrifice. Rather than become angry, bitter, judgemental (which would have been easy), I cried out to the Lord and gave it over to him. He comforted me, he restored me.

Isn't that what it's about? He restored me. Yet some of the members of his body insist on tearing down what God has restored, by heaping judgement on those of us who are divorced. It undoes all the restorative work that God has done, and then God has to start over.

Lotus, he has you in his hands....it is the Lord who restores. Stay fixed on him!

 

[olds8598]

My son was a very young child when my first husband ran away from home. He accused me (falsely) of having an affair. I didn't, but he did not believe me and he left anyway. A couple of years later he wanted to reconcile, so I tried, but then decided we had grown too far apart and I did not approve of his parenting style (he figured it was okay to spank a baby silly until said baby would go to sleep - imo, it was abusive to baby). All around that time, I felt the stigma of single parenting. I believe the stigma still exists - that single moms will just keep on pumping out babies so they can stay on welfare. It was totally a mischaracterization of me and my situation. I felt judged and I was angry about how people would believe the lies - my ex believing his own lie rather than the truth, and being judged based on the lie of a stereotype. It was painful and I was hurt and angry as a result. I know what it's like to be falsely accused.

Years later, I married a man who worked at my church. He beat me three times in the first month, and it escalated very quickly - the last time he could easily have killed me, so I divorced him immediately. The church knew he had beaten me, and did not discipline him at all. In fact, they told me that if I feel unsafe, I am the one who needed to go and find a new church.

I take it very, very personally when people talk about divorce as though it is not an option for Christian marriages. I become very angry that I am accused and judged as someone who has done something that God hates, and I hate that people are judging - another thing that God warns us not to do. I have been judged as someone who is now - because I am currently in the most blessed marriage I've ever been in - living in a constant state of adultery. I've been told I need to repent, even though my relationship with God is almost the best it's ever been (there was one period where it was a little better than it is now). God has blessed me with and in my current marriage.

But people judge. I am passionate about precious few things in life, but I burn with anger when people judge others for believing divorce is not an option. If it were not an option for me, and likely for 90% of divorced people out there, we would have a LOT of very lonely, sad, and broken people out there...people who would be condemned to stay in marriages that would keep them in their brokenness.

But God's plan is healing. It's why Jesus came and died for us. He died so that we can be healed from sin, and yes, from marital sin and judgement and condemnation. Divorce is one of the ways God helps us to heal. But there are those who judge and judge and judge, quoting scripture that is not even in context. And I burn with anger because they take all that healing that God has done by sending Jesus to die for us and they destroy the work of Jesus by heaping their condemnation, resulting in a lot of people who are again left broken. What is their purpose? I don't know....all I know is that it's just not God's intention to treat people this way. It breaks my heart, the judgements they make on people who are already hurting. It adds insult to injury, embitters people and makes for a very very poor testament to the love of the Lord Jesus. How can they not see the detrimental effects their judgements have on others???

I don't get it.

Quite simply, VallyGal, there are alot of idiots out there--both believers and non-believers. Let them--the idiot believers--go through what you went through and then let's see how they feel. I don't think the Lord wants you or anyone else to be in an unhappy union, let alone an unhappy AND unhealthy one.

Let them say what they want and play judge. If you prayed and believed what you did was right, then there's only one Judge you have to answer to.

 

[Svt4Him]

Quite simply, VallyGal, there are alot of idiots out there--both believers and non-believers. Let them--the idiot believers--go through what you went through and then let's see how they feel. I don't think the Lord wants you or anyone else to be in an unhappy union, let alone an unhappy AND unhealthy one.

Let them say what they want and play judge. If you prayed and believed what you did was right, then there's only one Judge you have to answer to.

I wish the pain on no one, I simply don't empower people who are ignorant, not necessarily idiots, to hurt me. It would be better if they were helpful, but if not, then I simply leave them be.

4 The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. 2 Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. 3 They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth. 4 For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, 5 because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer.

 

[olds8598]

I wish the pain on no one, I simply don't empower people who are ignorant, not necessarily idiots, hurt me. It would be better if they were helpful, but but if not, then I simply leave them be.

4 The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. 2 Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. 3 They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth. 4 For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, 5 because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer.

Agree with the 'not empowering' and 'leave them be' parts, and simply would add that there ARE idiot people in the world. I can speak from a personal standpoint. I would not have been in the financial mess I was in if I had listened to my parents and saved my money when I was younger. I was not ignorant; I was an idiot. The same applies to the judges. Everything cannot be blamed on the Devil and deceiving spirits.

 

[dayhiker]

Olds, yes .... the way I see it more people reap what they sow than have problems caused by the devil! I have cast out demons in my day, so its not that I don't believe the devil can cause problems.
Take just one things, God created us with emotions. But I wonder quite often why people use their emotions the way they do!

 

[Svt4Him]

Agree with the 'not empowering' and 'leave them be' parts, and simply would add that there ARE idiot people in the world. I can speak from a personal standpoint. I would not have been in the financial mess I was in if I had listened to my parents and saved my money when I was younger. I was not ignorant; I was an idiot. The same applies to the judges. Everything cannot be blamed on the Devil and deceiving spirits.

Oh don't get me wrong, I don't blame it on the devil, I think it's a doctrine of the devil but we are all accountable for our choices.

I lean towards being ignorant, as most people have not been taught correct. If I believe it's sin to do A, and I see you doing A, should I not tell you? Granted the interpersonal skills may be lacking when I tell you, but that's the age of the internet. In the same way, if you see me doing A and you believe it's sin, would you not tell me? Without compassion though it is painful, but I'd suggest that most people lack compassion on things they've never gone through.

But also I've seen people who I think are idiots, and they don't compare. That's just me though.

 

[mkgal1]

I hope you all don't mind me posting here, since I've not been divorced, but when I hear stories like VG's (and I've heard a LOT of them JUST like hers.....where the consequences all fall on the wife....not the abusive husband).......it really alarms me, and I feel such an urgency for change. I'm not suggesting vengeance.....but I do think that churches need more education in how to properly deal with the issue (even if the abuse is emotional----even more-so, maybe).

I was pleased when I saw that the ECC denomination has literature on their site (I need to do some digging for it) that is instruction on how church leaders ought to handle abuse (even how to spot it).

 

[olds8598]

Olds, yes .... the way I see it more people reap what they sow than have problems caused by the devil! I have cast out demons in my day, so its not that I don't believe the devil can cause problems.
Take just one things, God created us with emotions. But I wonder quite often why people use their emotions the way they do!