Judgement of the Ruler

[In Christ Forever]

I have a question concerning this "ruler" Jesus is talking about. First it shows Jesus no longer being able to talk with Him because the ruler of this world was coming, then it shows him as already "judged" and then cast out. It appears judgement had already started back then
Is this ruler considered the chief priest in Jerusalem or a group of priests ruling in Jerusalem and the one shown in Ezekiel? Is the ruler considered symbolically the devil or satan of that age that Paul talked about? I viewed it this way and it all seems to fit when was this suppose to have happened? I am beginning to think more has been fulfilled than I thought. Was this when God destroyed the temple and the priests in the first century? Thanks.

john 14:30 "I will no longer talk much with you, for the ruler[prince] of this world is coming, and he has nothing in Me.

John 16:11 and concerning judgment, because the ruler[prince] of this world hath been judged.

John 12:31 "Now is the judgment of this world; now the ruler[prince] of this world will be cast out.

mark 14:10 Then Judas Iscariot, one of the twelve, went to the chief priests to betray Him to them. 11 And when they heard [it,] they were glad, and promised to give him money. So he sought how he might conveniently betray Him. 42 "Rise, let us be going. See, My betrayer is at hand." 43 And immediately, while He was still speaking, Judas, one of the twelve, with a great multitude with swords and clubs, came from the chief priests and the scribes and the elders.

Romans 16:20 And the God of peace will crush Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ [be] with you. Amen.

ezekiel 21:25 'Now to you, O profane, wicked prince of Israel, whose day has come, whose iniquity [shall] end, 26 'thus says the Lord GOD: "Remove the turban, and take off the crown; Nothing [shall remain] the same. Exalt the humble, and humble the exalted. 27 Overthrown, overthrown, I will make it overthrown! It shall be no [longer,] Until He comes whose right it is, And I will give it [to Him."] '
1 corin 2:9 But as it is written: "Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, Nor have entered into the heart of man The things which God has prepared for those who love Him." 10 But God has revealed [them] to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God.

 

[Macca]

I have a question concerning this "ruler" Jesus is talking about. First it shows Jesus no longer being able to talk with Him because the ruler of this world was coming, then it shows him as already "judged" and then cast out. It appears judgement had already started back then
Is this ruler considered the chief priest in Jerusalem or a group of priests ruling in Jerusalem and the one shown in Ezekiel? Is the ruler considered symbolically the devil or satan of that age that Paul talked about? I viewed it this way and it all seems to fit when was this suppose to have happened? I am beginning to think more has been fulfilled than I thought. Was this when God destroyed the temple and the priests in the first century? Thanks.

john 14:30 "I will no longer talk much with you, for the ruler[prince] of this world is coming, and he has nothing in Me.

John 16:11 and concerning judgment, because the ruler[prince] of this world hath been judged.

John 12:31 "Now is the judgment of this world; now the ruler[prince] of this world will be cast out.

mark 14:10 Then Judas Iscariot, one of the twelve, went to the chief priests to betray Him to them. 11 And when they heard [it,] they were glad, and promised to give him money. So he sought how he might conveniently betray Him. 42 "Rise, let us be going. See, My betrayer is at hand." 43 And immediately, while He was still speaking, Judas, one of the twelve, with a great multitude with swords and clubs, came from the chief priests and the scribes and the elders.

Romans 16:20 And the God of peace will crush Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ [be] with you. Amen.

ezekiel 21:25 'Now to you, O profane, wicked prince of Israel, whose day has come, whose iniquity [shall] end, 26 'thus says the Lord GOD: "Remove the turban, and take off the crown; Nothing [shall remain] the same. Exalt the humble, and humble the exalted. 27 Overthrown, overthrown, I will make it overthrown! It shall be no [longer,] Until He comes whose right it is, And I will give it [to Him."] '
1 corin 2:9 But as it is written: "Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, Nor have entered into the heart of man The things which God has prepared for those who love Him." 10 But God has revealed [them] to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God.

John 14: 30 Jesus tells His disciples that He will not be around much longer (as a man) to talk to them. The ruler of this world is Satan, who had nothing in Jesus.
John 16 Satan has been judged, that's why he was thrown from heaven.
It is important to use scripture in context of where it is in chapters and paragraphs. We can make the Bible say anything we want to by taking verses out of context. Some of your quotes, while refering to the prince of this world, are used in a different context to Jesus' comments in John 14 & 16.
Macca.

 

[JohnJones]

No Jewish priest ever ruled the whole world (except Jesus who does so right now) so obviously the interpretation in the OP doesn't work. This stretching to make every figurative statment in the New Testament anti-Jewish, which dispensalionalists love to engage in so much, is ridiculous.

 

[In Christ Forever]

No Jewish priest ever ruled the whole world (except Jesus who does so right now) so obviously the interpretation in the OP doesn't work. This stretching to make every figurative statment in the New Testament anti-Jewish, which dispensalionalists love to engage in so much, is ridiculous.

Hmmm. I didn't say the priest was ruling over the whole world, just the temple in Jerusalem. Maybe all the people in the world end up worshipping him, don't know. There is no temple now anyway, so I don't know what to make of it unless it concerns the temple priest in the first century.
According to God in the bible, [not me] here is what He says about the future house of Judah and you can draw you own conclusions based on God's words here. The prophecies appear to be against the House of Levi, the priestly tribe of Judah, at least the way I read it.I myself make no distinction between jew, gentile, arab, german or anyone. The Holy Spirit doesn't allow me to have hatred for anyone brother. I would love to hear how you interpret these passages.Peace and grace to you.

hosea 8:14 Now He will remember their iniquity and punish their sins. They shall return to Egypt. 14 "For Israel has forgotten his Maker, And has built temples; Judah also has multiplied fortified cities; But I will send fire upon his cities, And it shall devour his palaces."

amos 2:4 Thus says the LORD: "For three transgressions of Judah, and for four, I will not turn away its [punishment,] Because they have despised the law of the LORD, And have not kept His commandments. Their lies lead them astray, [Lies] which their fathers followed. 5 But I will send a fire upon Judah, And it shall devour the palaces of Jerusalem."

Malachi 2:1 "And now, O priests, this commandment is for you. 2 If you will not hear, And if you will not take [it] to heart, To give glory to My name," Says the LORD of hosts, "I will send a curse upon you, And I will curse your blessings. Yes, I have cursed them already, Because you do not take [it] to heart. 8 But you have departed from the way; You have caused many to stumble at the law. You have corrupted the covenant of Levi," Says the LORD of hosts. 9 "Therefore I also have made you contemptible and base Before all the people, Because you have not kept My ways But have shown partiality in the law."

ezekiel 21:25 'Now to you, O profane, wicked prince of Israel, whose day has come, whose iniquity [shall] end, 26 'thus says the Lord GOD: "Remove the turban, and take off the crown; Nothing [shall remain] the same. Exalt the humble, and humble the exalted. 27 Overthrown, overthrown, I will make it overthrown! It shall be no [longer,] Until He comes whose right it is, And I will give it [to Him."] '

galat 5:22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. 24 And those [who are] Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.

 

[JohnJones]

There was prophecy about the destruction of the temple, but the temple didn't rule the world. The Old Testament provided various physical promises for keeping the Law and many physical punishments for breaking it, the main ones of which were pestilence, destruction, the land's loss of fruitfullness, loss of the land itself. Although Israel constantly broke the Old Covenant God put off many of these punishments until after the crucifixion of Christ. Then, in 70AD Titus sacked the Temple and forbade the Jews to even enter Jerusalem on threat of death, and circumcision which they once prized as a mark of their inheritance in the land became the token by which they were exiled from the land. Many atheists have pointed out that Israel is NOT a land flowing with milk and honey and have tried to use this to show the Bible as being in error, but the error is theirs. God took the fruitfullness of the land away after the crucifixion, as he promised in the OT. See Leviticus 26.

 

[In Christ Forever]

There was prophecy about the destruction of the temple, but the temple didn't rule the world. The Old Testament provided various physical promises for keeping the Law and many physical punishments for breaking it, the main one of which were pestilence, destruction, the land's loss of fruitfullness, loss of the land itself. Although Israel constantly broke the Old Covenant God put off many of these punishments until after the crucifixion of Christ. Then, in 70AD Titus sacked the Temple and forbade the Jews to even enter Jerusalem on threat of death, and circumcision which they once prized as a mark of their inheritance in the land became the token by which they were exiled from the land.

Yes I realize that. But how many of the prophecies for Jerusalem and the OT has been fulfilled?
So are all those prophecies pass for Jerusalem? If Malachi is talking about the House of Levi and Judah througout the book, are these prophecies fulfilled also? God rarely mentions the 10 tribes of the House of Israel He divorced as far as judgement is concerned. I read the bible everyday trying to find out what God did fulfill and what He didn't. Most of it appears to be against the House of Levi or Judah, so how much was fulfilled of them in the first century? I do not spiritualize the bible, but yes, I do read it in the Spirit when I do read it. Peace.

Malachi 3:1 "Behold, I send My messenger, And he will prepare the way before Me. And the Lord, whom you seek, Will suddenly come to His temple, Even the Messenger of the covenant, In whom you delight. Behold, He is coming," Says the LORD of hosts. 2 "But who can endure the day of His coming? And who can stand when He appears? For He [is] like a refiner's fire And like launderer's soap. 3 He will sit as a refiner and a purifier of silver; He will purify the sons of Levi, And purge them as gold and silver, That they may offer to the LORD An offering in righteousness.

Malachi 4:1 "For behold, the day is coming, Burning like an oven, And all the proud, yes, all who do wickedly will be stubble. And the day which is coming shall burn them up," Says the LORD of hosts, "That will leave them neither root nor branch. 2 But to you who fear My name The Sun of Righteousness shall arise With healing in His wings; And you shall go out And grow fat like stall-fed calves. 3 You shall trample the wicked, For they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet On the day that I do [this,"] Says the LORD of hosts.

Was this fulfilled at Pentecost up till now, or is this also yet future?

ezekie 37:13 "Then you shall know that I [am] the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O My people, and brought you up from your graves. 14 "I will put My Spirit in you, and you shall live, and I will place you in your own land. Then you shall know that I, the LORD, have spoken [it] and performed [it,"] says the LORD.' "

ephesian 5:6Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not be partakers with them. 8 For you were once darkness, but now [you are] light in the Lord. Walk as children of light 9 (for the fruit of the Spirit [is] in all goodness, righteousness, and truth), 10 finding out what is acceptable to the Lord. 11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose [them.]

 

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings In Christ Forever,

Let me give you MY interpretation of the following scriptures:

Revelation 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

THIS CAN BE SPEAKING OF NO OTHER THAN JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF.


Revelation 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

THE "WILDERNESS" IS THE WORLD. THE MESSAGE OF THE GOSPEL DEPARTED ISRAEL COMPLETELY BY 70 A.D. AND WENT INTO ALL THE WORLD.


Revelation 12:7-9 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

HERE IS WHERE WE SEE THE "PRINCE WHO WAS TO COME" BEING CAST OUT OF HEAVEN AND BECOMING THE "PRINCE AND POWER OF THE AIR" ON THIS EARTH.


Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

WE SEE IN JOB THAT SATAN "USED TO" WALK UP AND DOWN THE EARTH AND THEN COME BACK TO THE THRONEROOM OF GOD WHERE HE WOULD "ACCUSE THE BRETHREN" OF THEIR "UNRIGHTEOUSNESS". BUT WHEN SATAN WAS BOOTED OUT, HE WAS REPLACED WITH JESUS CHRIST WHO NOW SITS AT THE RIGHT HAND OF THE FATHER, ALWAYS INTERCEDING ON BEHALF OF THE SAINTS.


Revelation 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

FROM THE CROSS FORWARD, WE HAVE OVERCOME SATAN "BY THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB, AND THE WORD OF OUR TESTIMONY".


Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

THE ANGELS NO LONGER HAVE TO "CONTEND" WITH THE FALLEN ANGELS "IN HEAVEN", BUT THOSE OF US HERE ON THIS EARTH SUFFER THE RAVAGES OF THE "ROARING LION AS HE GOES ABOUT SEEKING WHOM HE MAY DEVOUR".


Revelation 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

THE EARLY CHURCH WAS HUNTED DOWN AND PERSECUTED AND KILLED.


Revelation 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

AS YOU CAN SEE THIS CHAPTER IS HIGHLY SYMBOLIC. I BELIEVE WE CAN FOCUS ON "INTO HER PLACE", WHICH I BELIEVE IS SYMBOLIC OF "THE KINGDOM OF GOD" ON THIS EARTH. THE "TIME, TIMES AND HALF TIME" IS CONSISTENT WITH 3 1/2 YEARS ELSEWHERE IN THE SCRIPTURES, PARTICULARLY DURING THE LAST 3 1/2 YEARS SHOWN IN REVELATION, SO I CAN ONLY "ASSUME" THAT IS WHAT THIS IS REFERRING TO. THIS IS A TIME THE BEAST WAGES WAR AGAINST THE SAINTS OF GOD, BUT GOD DIVINELY PROTECTS THEM DURING THIS HORRIBLE PERIOD OF TIME.


Revelation 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

USUALLY WHERE "WATER OR WATERS" ARE MENTIONED, IT MEANS "PEOPLES". SATAN IS HERE REVEALED AS GOING AFTER THE SAINTS IN THE SECULAR COMMUNITY "AS WELL AS" THE CHURCH. HE IS OFTEN SUBTLE, ALWAYS STORMY AND DOES NOT RELENT.


Revelation 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST CANNOT BE CONTAINED. THE WHOLE WORLD "CONSPIRES" TO REVEAL GOD'S GLORY. NO MATTER WHAT SATAN DOES IT CANNOT BE STOPPED.


Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

OUR WARFARE IS NOT CARNAL BUT MIGHTY UNTO GOD FOR THE PULLING DOWN OF STRONGHOLDS. WE DO NOT WAGE WAR AGAINST FLESH AND BLOOD BUT AGAINST POWERS AND PRINCIPALITIES IN HEAVENLY PLACES, RE: AGAINST THE PRINCE AND POWER OF THE AIR AND HIS MINIONS.

FROM THE OUTSET, SATAN, KNOWING HIS DAYS ARE SHORT, HAS BEEN CONTENDING FOR THE LIVES OF THE HUMAN RACE. HE IS CURRENTLY BEING RESTRAINED TO SOME DEGREE, BUT IN THE LAST DAYS "HE WHO RESTRAINETH WILL BE TAKEN OUT OF THE WAY", THAT IS "HE" STEPS BACK AND LET'S SATAN HAVE FULL REIGN. THAT WILL BE THE DAY OF THE GREAT TRIBULATION.

Well, like I said, this is my view of those scriptures, but I think they answer your questions.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

 

[In Christ Forever]

Let me give you MY interpretation of the following scriptures:
Revelation 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
THIS CAN BE SPEAKING OF NO OTHER THAN JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF.

Hi DAD ERNIE<
Thanks for taking the time to post. Yes, that proves some of revelation is historical because in chapter 5 it shows Him as a slain Lamb, so that would be about a 3 yr period from the birth to the ascension. There is also something that I am trying to look at and wondering if all those prophecies in [Malachi and Ezekiel especially], are possible fulfilled in revelation. But one key passage that others don't seem to notice is this and hard to not see this as possibly "Jerusalem", either past or future, especially since it is showing symbolically Christ being born and then taking up, which is historical!!!. God bless.

matt 23:34 "Therefore, indeed, I send you prophets, wise men, and scribes: [some] of them you will kill and crucify, and [some] of them you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city, 35 "that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 "Assuredly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation. 37 " O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under [her] wings, but you were not willing! 38 "See! Your house is left to you desolate;

revel18:23 "The light of a lamp shall not shine in you anymore, and the voice of bridegroom and bride shall not be heard in you anymore. For your merchants were the great men of the earth, for by your sorcery all the nations were deceived. 24 "And in her was found the blood of prophets and saints, and of all who were slain on the earth."

reve 19:17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in the midst of heaven, "Come and gather together for the supper of the great God, 18 "that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all [people,] free and slave, both small and great." 19
Ezekiel 39:8 "Surely it is coming, and it shall be done," says the Lord GOD. "This [is] the day of which I have spoken. 13 "Indeed all the people of the land will be burying, and they will gain renown for it on the day that I am glorified," says the Lord GOD. 15 "The search party will pass through the land; and [when anyone] sees a man's bone, he shall set up a marker by it, till the buriers have buried it in the Valley of Hamon Gog. 17 " And as for you, son of man, thus says the Lord GOD, 'Speak to every sort of bird and to every beast of the field: "Assemble yourselves and come; Gather together from all sides to My sacrificial meal Which I am sacrificing for you, A great sacrificial meal on the mountains of Israel, That you may eat flesh and drink blood. 18 You shall eat the flesh of the mighty, Drink the blood of the princes of the earth, Of rams and

 

[Dad Ernie]

matt 23:34 "Therefore, indeed, I send you prophets, wise men, and scribes: [some] of them you will kill and crucify, and [some] of them you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city, 35 "that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 "Assuredly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation. 37 " O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under [her] wings, but you were not willing! 38 "See! Your house is left to you desolate;

revel18:23 "The light of a lamp shall not shine in you anymore, and the voice of bridegroom and bride shall not be heard in you anymore. For your merchants were the great men of the earth, for by your sorcery all the nations were deceived. 24 "And in her was found the blood of prophets and saints, and of all who were slain on the earth."

I see much of Israel, the people and the land, as being "types" of future events. i.e. They were the "favorite son". In the NT, Jesus IS the Son. Type - Antetype. Circumcision of the flesh, the type, circumcision of the heart, the antetype. The Sabbath worship - type, Christ the antetype. And so it goes.

So I see the Mt. verses as occuring in 70 A.D. when Jerusalem and the temple were utterly destroyed and the people scattered among the nations or destroyed or went into captivity.

The Revelation story of Babylon is the "Antetype", whereas the destruction of Israel was the "type".

Blessings,

Dad Ernie