Judge Not that ye be Not Judged

[Exegete12]

Dear fellow posters:

What are your thoughts about judgement in relation to your religion?

This is a topic close to my heart at the moment, because so many of us (myself included) are very quick to judge our brothers or sisters, and them who are without the faith.

What are your views? When should we judge and when shouldn't we judge?

Kind regards
Hannah

 

[Arthra]

Ultimately God is our Judge so it is not our part to personally sit in judgement on others... In my Faith the individual by themselves cannot judge another person nor are we to backbite or slander one another.

"He is the One Who on the Day of Severing shall pass judgement through the power of Truth; indeed no God is there besides Him, the Peerless, the All-Compelling, the Exalted. He is the One Who holdeth within His grasp the kingdom of all created things; there is none other God but Him, the Single, the Incomparable, the Ever-Abiding, the Inaccessible, the Most Great.

......

Indeed God hath permitted no one to pass unfair judgement, and if thou wouldst fain do so, then soon shalt thou learn."

Selections from the Writings of the Báb
1 TABLETS AND ADDRESSES
pages 18-24

And from the Hidden Words of Baha'u'llah:


O SON OF BEING! How couldst thou forget thine own faults and busy thyself with the faults of others? Whoso doeth this is accursed of Me."
and


"O SON OF MAN! Breathe not the sins of others so long as thou art thyself a sinner. Shouldst thou transgress this command, accursed wouldst thou be, and to this I bear witness."

 

[morningstar2651]

Dear fellow posters:

What are your thoughts about judgement in relation to your religion?

This is a topic close to my heart at the moment, because so many of us (myself included) are very quick to judge our brothers or sisters, and them who are without the faith.

What are your views? When should we judge and when shouldn't we judge?

Kind regards
Hannah

There is a very nice section on this topic in Chapter 2 of The Power of Myth by Joseph Campbell. You can probably find a copy at your public library because it is a very well-known book and movie series.

Here are a couple of excerpts that I think you might find interesting, though you may not agree with all of his points. The book is in the form of an interview.

(Page 80-81)
MOYERS: Zorba says, "Trouble? Life is trouble."

CAMPBELL: Only death is no trouble. People ask me, "Do you have optimism about the world?" And I say, "Yes, it's great just the way it is. And you are not going to fix it up. Nobody has ever made it any better. It is never going to be any better. This is it, so take it or leave it. You are not going to correct or improve it."

MOYERS: Doesn't that lead to a rather passive attitude in the face of evil?

CAMPBELL: You yourself are participating in the evil, or you are not alive. Whatever you do is evil for somebody. This is one of the ironies of the whole creation.

MOYERS: What about thsi idea of good and evil in mythology, of life as a conflict between the forces of darkness and the forces of light?

CAMPBELL: That is a Zoroastrian idea, which has come over into Judaism and Christianity. In other traditions, good and evil are relative to the position in which you are standing. What is good for one is evil for the other. And you play your part, not withdrawing from the world when you realize how horrible it is, but seeing that this horror is simply the foreground of a wonder: a mysterium tremendum et fascinans.
"All life is sorrowful" is the first Buddhist saying, and so it is. It wouldn't be life if there were not temporality involved, which is sorrow -- loss, loss, loss. You've got to say yes to life and see it as magnificent this way; for this is surely the way God intended it.

[...]

MOYERS: But if you accepted that as an ultimate conclusion, you wouldn't try to form any laws or fight any battles or--

CAMPBELL: I didn't say that.

MOYERS: Isn't that the logical conclusion to draw from accepting everything as it is?

CAMPBELL: That is not the neccessary conclusion to draw. You could say, "I will participate in this life, I will join the army, I will go to war," and so forth.

MOYERS: "I will do the best I can."
​

The book has a lot more to say on the topic, including mention of the verse from the Bible, but I'd rather not violate the copyright and type up the whole thing, plus I have a test to review for.

And here is a quote by Morihei Ueshiba from The Art of Peace:

As soon as you concern yourself with the "good" and "bad" of your fellows, you create an opening in your heart for maliciousness to enter. Testing, competing with, and criticizing others weaken and defeat you.
​

 

[vajradhara]

Namaste AlHannah,

my tradition has no sort of judgement or judge involved. ones own actions, thoughts and words are the "judge" so to speak.

in my own behavior, i note that i am not as patient as i would like to be with beings that need it more than others.

metta,

~v

 

[9Harmony]

In addition to what Arthra posted, this is one of my favorite quotes on this subject.


"...Each of us is responsible for one life only, and that is our own. Each of us is immeasurably far from being “perfect as our heavenly father is perfect” and the task of perfecting our own life and character is one that requires all our attention, our will-power and energy. If we allow our attention and energy to be taken up in efforts to keep others right and remedy their faults, we are wasting precious time. We are like ploughmen each of whom has his team to manage and his plough to direct, and in order to keep his furrow straight he must keep his eye on his goal and concentrate on his own task. If he looks to this side and that to see how Tom and Harry are getting on and to criticize their ploughing, then his own furrow will assuredly become crooked."


•••(From a letter dated 12 May 1925 written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to an individual believer) Living the Life: a Compilation, p. 10 (British Publishing Trust) also in Compilation of Compilations vol. II p. 3-4.

 

[Exegete12]

Hello posters:
Well my two cents worth – We are never responsible for the final evaluation of anyone's character or conduct.

"Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord comes, who will both bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and reveal the counsels of the hearts." 1 Cor 4: 5

Even Jesus didn't while on earth (but He will in the future, in fact it is His Word which will judge all mankind).

But while on earth we can read the story about the man who confronted Jesus and claimed he was beng cheated out of his inheritance by his brother. So Jesus quoted the words of the Israelite to Moses and applied them to Himself: "Man, who made me a judge or an abitrator over you?"

So Jesus was saying in effect "There's a court here to take care of cases like that. There are elders, there is a Sanhedrin. I don't have any authority; I can't judge you." So we can see the wisdom of the Lord. Although Jesus was the Son of God and God's representative, He did not have authority in this area [at this period of His purpose], so He did not even judge. How many of us are here that are this wise?

On these forums I have seen people too quick and eager to judge our actions, our words and even non-Christians (who are outside of the law of grace).

Many thanks for your responses.

 

[Druweid]

My basic philosophy is simple. "Judge not the path of a brother or sister, for all paths are sacred."

-- Druweid

 

[DyingAsylum]

My basic philosophy is simple. "Judge not the path of a brother or sister, for all paths are sacred."

-- Druweid

I couldn't agree more Druweid.

 

[Exegete12]

I couldn't agree more Druweid.

HI DyingAsylum:
Thank you for your comment.
We are all on a spiritual journey, and some of us don't know where that path is taking us, or leading us.
Some of the paths we take may not be sacred.
We should judge our actions, just not other peoples.

 

[george78]

http://www.tektonics.org/lp/nojudge.html[FONT=Times, Times New Roman, Serif][SIZE=+1]

Does Matthew 7:1 Mean No Judging at All? [/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Times, Times New Roman, Serif][SIZE=+1]
[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Times, Times New Roman, Serif][SIZE=+1]D. C. wrote in and asked a few years back:[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Times, Times New Roman, Serif][SIZE=+1]Liberals tend use the concept of forgiveness and non-judgment to cow conservative critics. Their favorite verse (most likely the only one they know) is Jesus' injunction to "judge not lest thou be judged" from Matthew. What do the scriptures say, particularly in the light of our President [Bill Clinton]'s misbehavior? [/SIZE][/FONT]​

[FONT=Times, Times New Roman, Serif][SIZE=+1]Heh heh...yep, this is a good one. And the question is more poignant than we may realize.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times, Times New Roman, Serif][SIZE=+1]For perspective, let's quote the verse in question. It's Matthew 7:1 --[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Times, Times New Roman, Serif][SIZE=+1]Do not judge, or you too will be judged.[/SIZE][/FONT]​

[FONT=Times, Times New Roman, Serif][SIZE=+1]Pretty simple and to the point - but not at all to be taken by itself! While folks like to spit out 7:1, chances are they don't know much about what follows it. Let's go to verses 2-5: [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Times, Times New Roman, Serif][SIZE=+1]For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.[/SIZE][/FONT]​

[FONT=Times, Times New Roman, Serif][SIZE=+1]A couple of things to notice here:[/SIZE][/FONT]

• [FONT=Times, Times New Roman, Serif][SIZE=+1]
• The further exposition clearly indicates that what is condemned here is not judging per se, but judging hypocritically.
• It also clearly indicates that once you take the "plank" out of your own eye, you will see clearly (the Greek here is diablepo, meaning according to Strong's, to look through, i.e. recover full vision) to remove the speck from your brother's eye. Thus one is quite free to judge - if one is not a hypocrite![/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Times, Times New Roman, Serif][SIZE=+1]Now of course, there is a lot more that could be said about how one should go about the process of "judging", and we can discuss in this particular case the relevance to the sins of a national leader, and so on. But the bottom line is that this verse is not an outright forbidding of judging at all. In fact, it's right in line with John 7:24, "Stop judging by mere appearances, and make a right judgment." (I'll bet you'll never hear that verse quoted, eh!)[/SIZE][/FONT]

 

[Druweid]

We are all on a spiritual journey, and some of us don't know where that path is taking us, or leading us.

In my own opinion, if a person's path lacks a clear direction or destination, it is not a path. He/she is wandering.

From a Pagan POV, to say that one is on a path strongly implies that specific beliefs have been chosen, and that traditions supporting those beliefs are being faithfully practiced.

Some of the paths we take may not be sacred.
We should judge our actions, just not other peoples.

I still do not judge anothers choice of beliefs or practices. I DO however, judge the results of one's actions, similarly to what Christians are taught in Luke 6:43-45.

Respectfully,
-- Druweid

 

[kit]

Vajradhara did well summing up how we Buddhists would view it. For me it comes down to karma. If anyone else judges me that is their concern. I need to make judgements in Mettha. It also must be remembered that my judgements are for my own self. If I judge someone else I may not like the karma I create.

 

[Exegete12]

I think we can safely say that we judge our own actions, and we can judge that which we rule over.

However, too much liberalism has come into the role of judgement within society. We only have to look at our own judiciary and the laws applied.

When God said he was going to judge Sodom, Abraham actually challenged God as to whether it was going to be a JUST judgement. "Far be it from You to do such a thing as this, to slay the righteous with the wicked, so that the righteous should be as the wicked; far be it from You! Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?" Gen 18: 25.

Of course He will. Who is the judge of all the earth? God. The Ruler is also the Judge. And one of the major principles here is it is contrary to justice to treat the righteous as the wicked.

But Western culture now has a negative attitude toward judging. It resents authority and law enforcement. It assumes the primary function of judging is to punish the wicked. It is not; that is secondary. The primary function of judging is to protect the righteous.

What is disheartening nowadays, is that some agencies responsible for administering justice will bend over backwards to protect the criminal and offer little protection to the victim.

We must always remember that the primary function of justice is to protect the righteous. It is never in line with God's will to deal with the righteous as with the wicked.

So if the wicked go to hell, it is not that God is not loving, but that He is loving because He has to protect the righteous.

And one last thing, 1 Peter 1: 17: "And if you call on the Father, who without partiality judges according to each one's work, conduct yourselves throughout the time of your stay here in fear ..."