Judge Not: False Doctrine

[HARK!]

You're right. What Jesus Christ was saying here was that we cant be hypocrites in our judgements of others as well.

If you cheat on your wife constantly than you have no right to judge somebody who cheats also. First you have to tell your wife and work it out together, never cheat on her again, and THEN you can judge the other person for cheating. Otherwise God will say on judgement day that you were a hypocrite in doing so.

Or if you judge someone for lying and cussing, and you lie and cuss up a storm.

No doubt. For some reason people keep equating just judgement with hypocrisy. Just judgement rebukes hypocrisy.

 

[HARK!]

Is there some judgment going on here?

Confront your brother regarding his sin.
If he doesn't repent
take him to the Church.
If he doesn't repent there
kick him out of the church.
M

You're skipping a step.

Matthew 18:15-17 New Matthew Bible (NMB)
15 Moreover, if your brother trespasses against you, go and tell him his fault between him and you alone. If he hears you, you have redeemed your brother. 16 But if he does not hear you, then take along with you one or two others, so that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every matter may be established. 17 If he does not hear them, tell it to the congregation. If he does not hear the congregation, take him as a heathen man and as a publican.

Best to handle trespasses with the least amount of force, and at the lowest possible level, to bring correction.

P.S. ...and YES!, there is some judgement going on there. Thank you.

 

[HARK!]

I believe you are talking about wisdom here. Proverbs tells us "Bad company corrupts good character" and common sense tells anyone not to hang around with bad people, esp. law breakers.

Wisdom is of little value if one disregards it in the execution of proper judgement.

Solomon had more wisdom than any man in his day. Yet with all of that wisdom he married Pagan women, who gave him Pagan children, which helped to set the stage for the fall of Israel.

 

[HARK!]

The "action" is bringing "every thought into obedience to Christ." That is hard work. It is real hard not to judge others as Christ commands.

Yahshua calls us to just judgement.

This was pointed out in the OP.

(CLV) Jn 7:24
Be not judging by the countenance, but be judging just judging."

 

[HARK!]

It is quite interesting that you chose the CLV version. The overwhelming majority of other versions inform us that judging others WILL IMPERATIVELY and DEFINITELY result in our being jugged for judging others

...and again, if we read a few verses more; we see that Yahshua calls us to just judgement.

(CLV) Jn 7:24
Be not judging by the countenance, but be judging just judging."

 

[HARK!]

We judge Angel's now ...

How so?

 

[Sam81]

It's amazing that some people actually think that Christians shouldn't ever confront sin. That we should worship and break bread with people living in adultery and fornication and homosexuality and every kind of wicked lifestyle. And if a person cusses and watches R-rated movies all the time and and lives like the world and Christian ministers to a person in tries to bring them out of the world and set their feet on a rock that somehow they're wrong. Well let me tell you if a person really thinks that and they're anything but a new convert, that person does not know the Lord.

 

[Broken Fence]

How so?

From my understanding the Torah is God's law. The standard by which all things are judged is the Torah.

 

[HARK!]

No judgement needed. Just common sense would predicate that after the THREE step process of church discipline you dissociate one from among you who insists upon not turning from their evil ways.

judgement
/ˈdʒʌdʒm(ə)nt/
noun

1. the ability to make considered decisions or come to sensible conclusions: "an error of judgement" synonyms discernment, acumen, shrewdness, astuteness, common sense,

 

[Sam81]

Here's a question that is more in line with the relevant topic at hand...

If I'm witnessing door to door and someone says that they are a Christian and we get into a conversation and I find out that the man and woman living together are married... to different people. And they have an R-rated movie playing on their TV. And I myself don't commit adultery or watch smut. Should I carefully explain to them that they need to repent of their sin, because a Christian doesn't live in such a manner?

 

[Scott Husted]

How so?

T

How so?

By the message they bring ...

 

[Monksailor]

judgement
/ˈdʒʌdʒm(ə)nt/
noun

1. the ability to make considered decisions or come to sensible conclusions: "an error of judgement" synonyms discernment, acumen, shrewdness, astuteness, common sense,

Yes, you are correct, but like I said, God made the judgement already. We should only identify and categorize behavior as it fits God's judgement; that which, like I already explained is inherantly in all mankind. the fruit of the tree was NOT an APPLE. It was the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Along with sin and inherent its commission came the knowledge of good and evil. which came from God. God placed in our DNA, so to speak, HIS judgements of behavior, good and evil.

 

[zoidar]

Again, this thread isn't about hypocrisy. Yahshua clearly rebukes hypocrisy.

I thought the verses I quoted were about judging.

 

[HARK!]

It was the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Along with sin and inherent its commission came the knowledge of good and evil. which came from God. God placed in our DNA, so to speak, HIS judgements of behavior, good and evil.

This has nothing to do with DNA.

(CLV) Hb 8:10
"For this is the covenant which I shall be covenanting with the house of Israel after those days," the Lord is saying: "Imparting My laws to their comprehension, On their hearts, also, shall I be inscribing them, And I shall be to them for a God, And they shall be to Me for a people.

This isn't a passive command to let YHWH make all of your judgements for you. We are called to be active participants.

Again:

(CLV) Jn 7:24
Be not judging by the countenance, but be judging just judging."

Yahshua isn't telling us that he's telling himself not to do something here; any more than he's telling us that he's telling himself to do something.

We are told to judge justly. That means that we are called to judge. We are to justly judge; but just judgement is still judgement.

 

[HARK!]

I thought the verses I quoted were about judging.

They're about hypocritical judgement, which is an act of hypocrisy.

This thread is about just judgement. Hypocritical judgement is an act that Yahshua justly judged. If we follow Yahshua's example; we will do the same.

 

[Beanieboy]

Was the woman repentant? Right out of the gate we get to the root of the matter.

The Scripture doesn't say she came to repent, didn't ask forgiveness. It simply says that she found Jesus, and washed his feet with her tears, dried them with her hair.

It's possible that they were tears of joy. It's possible that they were tears of healing, of years of hurt.

Jesus doesn't Judge the woman, but Simon does.

According to your OP, Simon judging her was just judging, and Jesus, saying nothing, the "just look the other way - don't want to judge" crowd.

You have free will. You can follow Simon or Christ.

Don't tell me that you're robbing little old ladies at knife point; then when I call you on it; you say, "don't judge me." I'm going to judge you. If you aren't convicted; you will be when the jury gets done with you.

Would you mind using practical examples?

I drink alcohol. You may judge me as an alcoholic, or call me a drunkard. I then point out I have 2-3 beers a week.

You rush to point out scripture to show me I can't drink any alcohol and be Christian. The discussion goes in this route.

Does it seem edifying? From my standpoint, I would be wondering why you aren't looking at your own life, rather than putting me on trial with something in most people's minds would seem petty.

The Pharisees were making up laws as they went along. They weren't magnifying the Torah they were adding to it. Yahshua called them on it. Just judgement.

The condemned Jesus for healing on the
Sabbath - because he was working. He was. He wasn't resting. This isn't something they made up. As I said, they used the law to condemn and burden people, and because Christ was doing good, they were unable to see how healing was good, but rather, got very legalistic, and judged him, according to the law.

So, as with the flaw in your poll, who was right:
The Pharisees for judging according to God's Law
Jesus, thinking you can do whatever you want on the Sabbath?

Your poll is a trap.

Were held to the entire law whether we acknowledge it or not. If you judge justly you will be judged justly. What's wrong with just judgement? This is what we are called to do.

I'm called to love my neighbor as myself.

I only point out the speck in my brother's eye if I have examined and judged my own life, and removed the 2x4.

I am not to judge anyone outside of the faith.

But to love my neighbor as myself, I must come from a place of humility, acknowledging that I have fallen short of the glory of God. I must come from a place of love, that I am doing it to help, not condemn, not to bully, not to shame another to exalt myself. Sadly, this is what many Christians do. And I must do it from a place of mercy, as I have been shown mercy.

I thought you just said that he wasn't harsh.

The bible differentiates the Pharisees from the sinners. Are you purposefully being obtuse?

How does one recognize sin in absence of just judgement?

Is that the real point of the thread? To state what is and isn't sin, and judge that?

Because within our culture, "judge" has so many different, and often negative connotations.

Often, the unspoken theme I'm hearing is: Do Christians have the right to walk around condemning others, or judging with superiority, or judge because we have a superior moral compass to everyone?

Everyone has judgements of right and wrong, but to some extent, it's like eggs and ketchup. Just because you don't like ketchup on your eggs doesn't make those who do disgusting. It makes them different than you. Oooo scary.

It really doesn't take that much time. If they don't receive me; I just wipe the dust from my feet and move on. It gives me more time to spend with someone who loves the truth.

My point was, are you spending time examining your own life?

From everything you have said so far, you are mostly concerned about focusing on the sins of others, and haven't once mentioned yourself.

Um, bruh, I think you got something in your eye...

 

[Beanieboy]

Cab I ask for clarification of how we are defining "judge"?

In a court of law, evidence is provided, and a judgement is concluded. However, a person is innocent until proven guilty. Even a person guilty of a crime will be judged not guilty if there isn't significant evidence to prove their guilt.

Judge can mean discern.

When a person says, "don't judge me" or "who am I to judge," they are usually stating that they are not qualified to judge, do not have all the information, or feel as though they are being condemned for, say, smoking, not to edify, but to pass judgement to make the accuser feel superior.

Christians can misuse the Bible just as the Pharisees did to condemn and oppress others, with no love at all. They can lift things out of context to support their condemnation, refuse to examine the translation, look at what scholars have to say, look to see if anyone is harmed. For some, it is an ego trip.
They are the people who gossip about others in the church. One street preacher was referring to everyone passing by as demons. He judged anyone who was still sinning, because, according to him, he no longer sinned. Except lying to himself, I guess.

So it would be helpful to understand what judging justly means, exactly.

 

[Beanieboy]

It's amazing that some people actually think that Christians shouldn't ever confront sin. That we should worship and break bread with people living in adultery and fornication and homosexuality and every kind of wicked lifestyle. And if a person cusses and watches R-rated movies all the time and and lives like the world and Christian ministers to a person in tries to bring them out of the world and set their feet on a rock that somehow they're wrong. Well let me tell you if a person really thinks that and they're anything but a new convert, that person does not know the Lord.

So, have you stopped sinning of any kind, or are you not a Real Christian (TM)

 

[HARK!]

The Scripture doesn't say she came to repent, didn't ask forgiveness. It simply says that she found Jesus, and washed his feet with her tears, dried them with her hair.

It says a little more than that:

(CLV) Lk 7:48
Now He said to her, "Pardoned are your sins."

(CLV) Lk 7:50
Now He said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you. Go in peace."

Now contrast those verses with this:

(CLV) Hb 10:28
Anyone repudiating Moses' law is dying without pity on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
(CLV) Hb 10:29
Of how much worse punishment, are you supposing, will he be counted worthy who tramples on the Son of God, and deems the blood of the covenant by which he is hallowed contaminating, and outrages the spirit of grace?

If she continues in her sin; would that have been of faith? If she trampled the blood of Yahshua; would she have been saved?

Would you mind using practical examples?

That's a very practical example. It's exemplifies the value of being judgemental.

The condemned Jesus for healing on the
Sabbath - because he was working.

Are you accusing Yahshua of what his enemies falsely accused him of? I don't follow the Talmud.

I am not to judge anyone outside of the faith.

Nonsense. How does one set themselves apart from the Pagans if he has not the judgement to recognize a Pagan?

The bible differentiates the Pharisees from the sinners.

Pharisees were sinners.

...and, as an added bonus:

King James Bible
For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

How would we know how to exceed the the righteousness of the Pharisees, without judging the righteousness of the Pharisees.

I look forward to an answer on this one.

Is that the real point of the thread? To state what is and isn't sin, and judge that?

I already know what sin is.

(CLV) 1Jn 3:4
Everyone who is doing sin is doing lawlessness also, and sin is lawlessness.

We need to know the Torah (law) before we can judge whether or not we are keeping the Torah.

 

[HARK!]

Cab I ask for clarification of how we are defining "judge"?

I just provided a definition for judgement a few posts ago.

judgement
/ˈdʒʌdʒm(ə)nt/
noun

1. the ability to make considered decisions or come to sensible conclusions: "an error of judgement" synonyms discernment, acumen, shrewdness, astuteness, common sense,

So it would be helpful to understand what judging justly means, exactly.

Here is the definition I use:

just
adjective

(1) : acting or being in conformity with what is morally upright or good : righteous

What is righteousness?


Definition of righteous

1 : acting in accord with divine or moral law : free from guilt or sin

YHWH judges by the Torah. We are to be like him.
Definition of RIGHTEOUS