Judas

[ashout]

Remember when Jesus said that the one who betrays him will be better off if he had never been born?

then I got to thinking, Hell is eternal for all the wicked and it is better that NONE of them were ever born, THUS

ALL OF THE WICKED HAVE BETRAYED JESUS!

what do you guys think? does this ring true?

 

[Hammster]

Remember when Jesus said that the one who betrays him will be better off if he had never been born?

then I got to thinking, Hell is eternal for all the wicked and it is better that NONE of them were ever born, THUS

ALL OF THE WICKED HAVE BETRAYED JESUS!

what do you guys think? does this ring true?

No. All the wicked have denied Him.

 

[ashout]

then whats the deal with blashphemy? is that something people do when they become unforgiveable? becuase my understanding is that you don't just blashpheme lightly, God has to make you do it.

 

[WinBySurrender]

then whats the deal with blashphemy? is that something people do when they become unforgiveable? becuase my understanding is that you don't just blashpheme lightly, God has to make you do it.

God ... make you sin? Really, ash?

Blasphemy, in the church age at any rate, is discrediting the work of God, attributing it to someone or something else. That's not something God would make anyone do.

 

[Robs07M6S]

then whats the deal with blashphemy? is that something people do when they become unforgiveable? becuase my understanding is that you don't just blashpheme lightly, God has to make you do it.

Ash sometimes you say things that are most brilliant and then other times "such as this post" I walk away scratching my head wondering where in the world you get your idea's.

 

[ashout]

i look at it this way, would someone just "Accidently" blashpheme the holy spirit? I mean, what if someone in his ignorance said the bible was evil when he was younger, he could NEVER come to christ! so God MUST be watching over people to make sure the children of Christ never commit it while they are not in christ. clearly no one in christ would ever commit it.

also, my theory is that all the people of hell blashpheme the holy spirit, its the final thing they do before going to hell pretty much(Aside from wait around in the spirit prison, rather depressed and hopelss at that point).

I assertain that God decided to MAKE it a big deal in order to have a sort of final sin from which there is no return. something he didn't really need to do, so maybe not.

and as always, this is just a theory. MAYBE I'm wrong! I think not though, becuase i've done a little first hand reasearch into the subject.

 

[Robs07M6S]

i look at it this way, would someone just "Accidently" blashpheme the holy spirit?

No because its not a sin that is accidently commited ash, the one who commits this sin does so with full knowledge of what it is that they are doing.

I mean, what if someone in his ignorance said the bible was evil when he was younger, he could NEVER come to christ!

The key word is ignorance and again ash this isnt a sin that is committed in ignorance. Paul was formerly a blasphemer too but why does he say he obtained mercy? because he did it in ignorance.

clearly no one in christ would ever commit it.

Thats right, it isnt even possible for them to do so.

also, my theory is that all the people of hell blashpheme the holy spirit, its the final thing they do before going to hell pretty much(Aside from wait around in the spirit prison, rather depressed and hopelss at that point).

Your theory? does your theory line up with the scriptures? Not all who are in hell have blasphemed the Holy Spirit, many are there because of unbelief which itself isnt blasphemey.

MAYBE I'm wrong! I think not though, becuase i've done a little first hand reasearch into the subject.

No offense but you need to do more research, your pretty far off the mark if you believe this sin can be committed accidentally or in ignorance.

 

[ashout]

alright, lets establish something here that i dont think we've established yet, what exactly IS blashphemy of the holy spirit? how do you commit it? what exactly did you do?

 

[Robs07M6S]

alright, lets establish something here that i dont think we've established yet, what exactly IS blashphemy of the holy spirit? how do you commit it? what exactly did you do?

Whats the Holy Spirits role in conversion? Think about that first and then the rest will come. In short its a full and complete rejection of everything he has shown you concerning Christ, it is to do despite unto the Spirit of Grace.

Before Christ was crucified the sin was committed by attributing the powers of the Holy Spirit to be the powers of Satan, the pharisee's did this very thing and then Christ rebuked them for it though its possible that since Christ was still warning them that they hadnt yet actually committed it. The only other time it will be possible to commit this sin in the same manner is when Christ returns and we reign with him for 1000yrs.

Many would have you to believe that today this sin can no longer be committed but they are wrong, the sin can still be committed but not in the same way. The book of Hebrews is filled with such warnings and its clear that blasphemey can still be committed since the Holy Spirit is on the earth right now performing his ministry.

If you have 20 minutes I would recommend that you watch this 2 part series by John Piper on this subject as he gets right into the heart of the matter.

http://www.desiringgod.org/resource-library/sermons/beyond-forgiveness-blasphemy-against-the-spirit


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkBcPaqO_-U&feature=player_embedded#!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNyEG1mPM0s&feature=related

 

[WinBySurrender]

i look at it this way, would someone just "Accidently" blashpheme the holy spirit? I mean, what if someone in his ignorance said the bible was evil when he was younger, he could NEVER come to christ! so God MUST be watching over people to make sure the children of Christ never commit it while they are not in christ. clearly no one in christ would ever commit it.

Ash, ash, ash ... ... all sins are forgivable, even the so-called "unforgivable sin" in this, the age of Christ's redemption.

also, my theory is that all the people of hell blashpheme the holy spirit, its the final thing they do before going to hell pretty much(Aside from wait around in the spirit prison, rather depressed and hopelss at that point).

By refusing to heed Jesus, to acknowledge Him as Savior and Lord, they have "blasphemed" but at any time before they drew their last breath, they could have repented and been saved.

I assertain that God decided to MAKE it a big deal in order to have a sort of final sin from which there is no return. something he didn't really need to do, so maybe not.[/God didn't "make it a big deal." Man does. God is a big deal, and we should recognize His work in creation and seek Him from the time we suspect there is more to this life than us.

 

[Robs07M6S]

Ash, ash, ash ... ... all sins are forgivable, even the so-called "unforgivable sin" in this, the age of Christ's redemption.By refusing to heed Jesus, to acknowledge Him as Savior and Lord, they have "blasphemed" but at any time before they drew their last breath, they could have repented and been saved.

I assertain that God decided to MAKE it a big deal in order to have a sort of final sin from which there is no return. something he didn't really need to do, so maybe not.[/God didn't "make it a big deal." Man does. God is a big deal, and we should recognize His work in creation and seek Him from the time we suspect there is more to this life than us.

To tell a person he has till his last breath to repent is to presume on the Grace of God, im sorry but its the truth. Toying with both sin and God your whole life and then expecting God to grant you repentance in your last dying words is presumption.

When you resist the Holy Spirits convictions and promptings your heart hardens and to make this a habitual practice is to place yourself in danger of committing this sin. God is not mocked and a man shall reap what he sows.

 

[WinBySurrender]

To tell a person he has till his last breath to repent is to presume on the Grace of God, im sorry but its the truth. Toying with both sin and God your whole life and then expecting God to grant you repentance in your last dying words is presumption.

My dad was diagnosed with lung cancer in 2007. He was 82 then. They removed half his right lung and ran chemotherapy for six weeks. The cancer went into remission. Throughout that time, I had shared Jesus with him to no avail. He was of the Greatest Generation, was pretty much self-made from a long line of self-made men. He didn't think he needed Christ. Until the cancer came back in late 2007. More chemo, rapid deterioration, stage four. In the few weeks he had left, he heard the call. On Sept. 12, 2007, he prayed to receive Christ. He began attending the SBC church in our home town. When he couldn't walk anymore, he asked my brother (who wasn't a Christian at the time) to take him to church and push him through the doors in a wheelchair. Dad told anyone who would stand still for five seconds how he came to Christ. On January 11, 2008, Dad went home to the Lord he had denied and run from for most of 83 years.

That man who was well loved, respected, a self-made man who lived through the Depression, went off to war, was awarded the Silver Star and the Purple Heart times three! -- who at the age of 42 gave up on farming and became an insurance agent, taking all of the $200,000 he could borrow to buy an agency, knowing he was gambling his family's future, selling 49% of that agency 30 years later for ten times that amount, that man who didn't "toy" with anything -- that man knew that all of it meant nothing without Christ!

Don't tell me he was "toying" with anything, Rob. God had a plan for my dad. Why would He make a man wait until he was four months from death to bring him into the kingdom? Because by my count, that man is responsible for witnessing to fourteen men and women in that small town in north Missouri who came to Christ by his testimony ... including my brother.

You don't know what God has in store. God doesn't play games. God doesn't let anyone "toy" with the gospel. God has a plan. And with my dad, that was it.

And Rob?

It worked. Dad didn't "toy" but God had a plan. So Rob, forgive me this, but stop your whining, stop your sniveling, stop the nonsense. God has a plan. Get on with it. If God could use Dad that powerfully in four months, imagine what God has in store for you in the time you have left?

 

[98cwitr]

OP, you should check out the Apocalypse of Peter. Not Scripture, but an interesting read historically of how first century views created our idea of Hell in lieu of the canonized references.

 

[Robs07M6S]

Deleted post.

 

[Robs07M6S]

Deleted post.

 

[WinBySurrender]

First of all im glad to hear about your Dad and I never said it was impossible for one to be saved this way. Now, as for your accusations in regards to my supposed sniveling and whining I suggest you keep them to yourself because that isnt at all what I am doing and by making such a claim you are falsely misrepresinting myself and the point it is that im trying to get across.

Take a close look at yourself, my friend. I've been on this board only six weeks or so and I can see what you do, brother, and it doesn't have to work this way for you. I apologize for the roughness of that post, but Dude, somebody needs to shake you up. You can't blame me for trying. Peace out.

 

[Robs07M6S]

Take a close look at yourself, my friend. I've been on this board only six weeks or so and I can see what you do, brother, and it doesn't have to work this way for you. I apologize for the roughness of that post, but Dude, somebody needs to shake you up. You can't blame me for trying. Peace out.

Thats fine, grab me around the throat and do it. Maybe it will fix me, who knows. Sorry for getting so upset too as im sure I probably took what you said all the wrong way like I usually do.

 

[iLogos]

Remember when Jesus said that the one who betrays him will be better off if he had never been born?

then I got to thinking, Hell is eternal for all the wicked and it is better that NONE of them were ever born, THUS

ALL OF THE WICKED HAVE BETRAYED JESUS!

what do you guys think? does this ring true?

Obviously in the case of Judas, it would have been better off if he was not born. I can not fathom how he must have felt when the realization of what he did finally sunk in. The guilt, shame, hurt, anger, sadness, disappointment, regret, shock, all at once, and then the worse part, separation from God. That's pretty heavy!

 

[ashout]

Obviously in the case of Judas, it would have been better off if he was not born. I can not fathom how he must have felt when the realization of what he did finally sunk in. The guilt, shame, hurt, anger, sadness, disappointment, regret, shock, all at once, and then the worse part, separation from God. That's pretty heavy!

yeah it gets to be pretty ruff, but you'd be surprised how nice God can be to those whom he hates.

 

[phoenixdem]

i look at it this way, would someone just "Accidently" blashpheme the holy spirit? I mean, what if someone in his ignorance said the bible was evil when he was younger, he could NEVER come to christ! so God MUST be watching over people to make sure the children of Christ never commit it while they are not in christ. clearly no one in christ would ever commit it.

also, my theory is that all the people of hell blashpheme the holy spirit, its the final thing they do before going to hell pretty much(Aside from wait around in the spirit prison, rather depressed and hopelss at that point).

I assertain that God decided to MAKE it a big deal in order to have a sort of final sin from which there is no return. something he didn't really need to do, so maybe not.

and as always, this is just a theory. MAYBE I'm wrong! I think not though, becuase i've done a little first hand reasearch into the subject.

I don't believe a Christian can commit the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Before the words come out, He will seal your lips.

You say that "God didn't need to do it." What is it that brings a sinner under conviction and brings him to his knees to go to Christ for salvation? What is that lives inside every Christian? What is it guides the steps of a Christian? What is it that seals a Christian for salvation like the blood on the wall that saved the ancient Egypt when the destroyer killed the first born of the Egyptians? God didn't need to do it? God thinks He did need to do it and since this is His Creation, we live by His rules for salvation or reject the Holy Spirit and die in our sins.