Joyce Meyer

jiminpa · Apr 12, 2019

Romans 8 said:
Have you got evidence to the contrary? I'm all ears.

"These wolves"? The wolves have big teeth and the sheep are the fluffy ones.

I disagree.

Care to state your case?

[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]I don't make a living deceiving Christians, so I don't have the time or resources to scour every teaching she has ever done. Since I find her teaching edifying, even though I don't fully agree with every single word of it, I listen to some of what she is currently teaching and find the vast majority of it to be very scriptural. I can't say the same about your gossip sites, since I stopped listening to their half-truths and full-on lies years ago.

jiminpa · Apr 12, 2019

Romans 8 said:
You're conflating different arguments from other threads. This is a waste of time.

I might be.

ICONO'CLAST · Apr 12, 2019

jiminpa,

[It is very on topic.]
No it is not...Peter settled the issue;
15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

[Some of us are trying to reconcile the meaning of scripture verses a futile attempt to blindly follow the letter of the law irrespective of the full meaning.]
No, you are trying to sidestep the meaning and supply your own ideas in its place.

[You stated that every word Paul penned in his letters is to be carried out as God's breath.]
That is the biblical teaching

[It is not reading for the meaning that makes the scriptures seem contradictory. God placed Deborah in authority over Israel, as judge and as commander of the army, but God forbids women from being in authority, which is it?]
She was a judgment on Israel. Woman are not to lead in any way. This has nothing to do with scripture being inspired of God.
Every real Christian and Church knows this.

[It can't be both. I guess the Bible must be contradictory, except that it's not.]
Actually most charismatic churches teach falsely and not much in the way of solid teaching.

[You have to place it all in full context, and when I say full context I mean the whole of scripture.]
I have

[That's quite a bit more work than seeing a verse and clamping onto it. So if you take one statement by Paul out of context you may come to one conclusion, but if you take it in the full context of scripture you draw a completely different one. ]
Not a chance

[Since the verses about women holding authority and speaking in the assembly are being applied to Joyce Meyer without considering context, a discussion of context applies to a thread on Joyce Meyer as a teacher.]

I will not mention the name of a public person , but if you do a google search to see who has taught the Jesus ;
1]stopped being the Son of God,

2] burned in hell

3] had to be born again in hell

and other such profane teachings you might be surprised.

Presbyterian Continuist · Apr 12, 2019

Ttalkkugjil said:
Perhaps because said business executives don't claim to be doing teaching for God while they live high off the hog.

Do you have access to the accounts of her ministry? Have you read the auditor's report? If you did read it, would you find anything in it that would suggest that the salary that she is receiving from the ministry is excessive? Or, does the accountant and the team of elders and advisers actually running the ministry believe that the salary that she is being paid is appropriate for a person in her position?

Do you know how many hours a week that she works? And do you know how much time she actually spends in any of her homes, or does she spend most of her working time in hotel rooms around the country and only gets to go home when she gets annual leave like everyone else?

Or are you just making your evaluations just by watching her on Youtube and reading stuff on google about her?

Presbyterian Continuist · Apr 12, 2019

Ttalkkugjil said:
Here's what I think - no teacher/preacher should be living on such largesse. Really leads to questioning of her motives. Is she truly in it for God, or is she really in it for her own luxurious life.

What sort of a salary would you be paying the pastor of your church if you were the treasurer?

jiminpa · Apr 12, 2019

I know that Peter endorsed Paul's writing. I am not arguing against the validity of Paul's writings. I disagree with your view of context.

I know that she has said some very cringe-worthy things in the past decades that she has been teaching and learning. I am basing my evaluation of her on her current teaching, and I don't hear any of that now. Granted, I don't watch every time she is on the air, but I watch her quite a bit. The problem I have with holding every word she has ever said against her is two-fold, 1. she could usually offer some biblical support for even her worst teachings of the past, 2. as far as I can tell they are in the past. As I have been saying, these accusers of the brethren scour decades worth of her teaching searching for every single flaw, and they aren't afraid to yank them so far out of context that the listener is left to conclude the opposite of what was said, in context, so we don't know how far back and how small a portion of her teachings they pulled to find an accusation against her. Hmmmm, sound familiar?

jiminpa · Apr 12, 2019

Oscarr said:
What sort of a salary would you be paying the pastor of your church if you were the treasurer?

Congregation Questions Pastor's Lavish Lifestyle Upon Purchase Of '98 Corolla Maybe something like this would be more appropriate.

Ttalkkugjil · Apr 12, 2019

Oscarr said:
What sort of a salary would you be paying the pastor of your church if you were the treasurer?

It wouldn't be up to me alone. It would be a figure set by the board. What I'd push for would be about $60,000/year. Considerably less than what Ms. Meyer pulls in.

Ttalkkugjil · Apr 12, 2019

Oscarr said:
Do you have access to the accounts of her ministry? Have you read the auditor's report? If you did read it, would you find anything in it that would suggest that the salary that she is receiving from the ministry is excessive? Or, does the accountant and the team of elders and advisers actually running the ministry believe that the salary that she is being paid is appropriate for a person in her position?

Do you know how many hours a week that she works? And do you know how much time she actually spends in any of her homes, or does she spend most of her working time in hotel rooms around the country and only gets to go home when she gets annual leave like everyone else?

Or are you just making your evaluations just by watching her on Youtube and reading stuff on google about her?

Let us feel sorry for her. Not only does she own several homes but she also must spend time staying in swanky hotel rooms.

jiminpa · Apr 12, 2019

Ttalkkugjil said:
It wouldn't be up to me alone. It would be a figure set by the board. What I'd push for would be about $60,000/year. Considerably less than what Ms. Meyer pulls in.

Would you demand that she surrender her book royalties too?

Ttalkkugjil · Apr 12, 2019

jiminpa said:
Would you demand that she surrender her book royalties too?

Did I demand that she surrender anything?

jiminpa · Apr 12, 2019

Ttalkkugjil said:
Let us feel sorry for her. Not only does she own several homes but she also must spend time staying in swanky hotel rooms.

If you listen to what she says about it, and not what a bunch of professional accusers of the brethren say, you might know that she considers hotels one of the less desirable parts of what she does. But being fair to you, you would also hear that she doesn't spend so much time on the road anymore.

I'm still no fan of jealousy as some sort of virtue. It is not, and this, "she has too much," position runs over with it.

jiminpa · Apr 12, 2019

Ttalkkugjil said:
Did I demand that she surrender anything?

Her residence, and anything else that might make her appear to have more than you do, since you're asking.

Ttalkkugjil · Apr 12, 2019

jiminpa said:
If you listen to what she says about it, and not what a bunch of professional accusers of the brethren say, you might know that she considers hotels one of the less desirable parts of what she does. But being fair to you, you would also hear that she doesn't spend so much time on the road anymore.

I'm still no fan of jealousy as some sort of virtue. It is not, and this, "she has too much," position runs over with it.

No jealousy here. Just a warning to consider the motives of people who are held up as great teachers. Lifestyles of many homes, trips on private jets, stays in swanky hotel rooms, rich wardrobes speak volumes.

Ttalkkugjil · Apr 12, 2019

jiminpa said:
Her residence, and anything else that might make her appear to have more than you do, since you're asking.

In fact I didn't. As far as I know, everything she's doing is legal and so should be allowed. I would just encourage Christians to invest their hard-earned dollars elsewhere.

jiminpa · Apr 12, 2019

Ttalkkugjil said:
No jealousy here. Just a warning to consider the motives of people who are held up as great teachers. Lifestyles of many homes, trips on private jets, stays in swanky hotel rooms, rich wardrobes speak volumes.

...and so does your taking issue with her reaping the fruit of her labors. Not all of your words in this thread match each other.

FireDragon76 · Apr 12, 2019

Oscarr said:
if some think that Joyce Meyer is just a half-baked motivational speaker, then the Apostle Paul must be too, because the four hours of preaching I have heard so far from her is based mainly on what Paul is teaching in his letters. He was very motivational for Christ in his letters. She is just following Paul and Paul is following Jesus.

Oh, by the way, I have extensively read many of the 17th Century Puritan authors, and boy they were motivational too!

I've read some of that same stuff, particularly William Law. Moralism is not a new thing, though.

But I agree, there's nothing indordinately problematic about Joyce Meyers preaching that sets her apart from many other preachers out there.

Ttalkkugjil · Apr 12, 2019

jiminpa said:
...and so does your taking issue with her reaping the fruit of her labors. Not all of your words in this thread match each other.

So my guess is just that you enjoy her teaching. You have every right to send your money to one living so high off the hog. As for me, I'll invest my funds where I believe people are sincerely interested in doing ministry to serve God rather than their own bank accounts.

jiminpa · Apr 12, 2019

^ maybe it's just free-market American in me, but if someone works hard, and takes risks, especially the risk of trusting God for your living, and she did, (she didn't start out filling auditoriums), I don't think I have the right to tell God how to reward that person, doubly so if the person turns around and goes into philanthropy in Jesus's name.

FireDragon76 · Apr 12, 2019

Ttalkkugjil said:
So my guess is just that you enjoy her teaching. You have every right to send your money to one living so high off the hog. As for me, I'll invest my funds where I believe people are sincerely interested in doing ministry to serve God rather than their own bank accounts.

Making alot of money off preaching has been a thing in the US, at least, since Billy Sunday. It was just as controversial then as it is now.

I don't think people have to preach WOF directly for people to wonder just what the message is when pastors have ostentatious displays of wealth. I don't expect a pastor to drive a Yugo or wear shoes they bought from the bargain bin at Wal-Mart, but a pastor should be sensitive to the sort of message they are sending in that manner.

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