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If that were true then mormons wouldn't be whining about him. I'm sure it's not true - I'm sure he sufficiently exposes the real beliefs of mormonism so that seekers see how different and strange from Christianity their real beliefs are. And I'm sure that deters people from joining the mormon religion and even leads many mormons out of their religion and to Christianity.
We do not know his true feelings or beliefs. So saying that 'he hasn't looked back since' is impossible for you to know.I actually knew a guy that happened to.
He was raised in a mainline Christian denomination. While in school, he learned that a local girl was Mormon. He decided that it was his "Christian" duty to get into a relationship with her, then use that relationship to "save" her.
As part of it, he decided to start reading a lot of anti-Mormon material and comparing it to what the church itself was officially saying & doing, plus what he was seeing in the girl.
After a while, he came to realize that the anti-Mormon material was nothing more than hogwash. He left his denomination in order to become a member of the church, at which point he married the girl. He hasn't looked back since.
Isn't it wonderful that in the US we have the freedom to join any religion we believe in....only for people to realize that he's full of it and come right back to us.
I was actually involved in a situation where that happened.
A critic of the church was making noise on a message board I and a few others - including WWA - were on at the time. She claimed to have been a former member of the church, and that she left after reading Decker. We told her about Decker's reputation for nonsense and a number of the lies he told, at which point she agreed to re-investigate matters.
A little while later, she came back and admitted that, after investigating everything, she found that Decker was, indeed, lying. Because of this, she was going to investigate the church all over again. This time, Decker's material would be kicked to the curb so she could investigate fairly.
In response, a guy who claimed to be a Baptist minister exploded on everyone. He posted an open letter to her husband, during which he ordered the man to use "any means necessary" to stop her from rejoining the LDS faith. If she did rejoin the church, the minister pronounced, it would mean that he was a failure as a husband and a Christian.
The woman responded to the letter by noting that she and her husband were now joining the church, as neither wanted to belong to a faith tradition that would let someone like the minister be a minister.
We do not know his true feelings or beliefs. So saying that 'he hasn't looked back since' is impossible for you to know.
Well we don't know. That is your opinion. That's my point.No, that's what he himself told me.
So yes, I do know.
I suspect you meant BOM is a fraud. Well you have nailed it right on the head.I don't. I see much twisting of information.
If you don't see that. That's too bad
Now back on topic the apostasy. If it's been proven that the BOA is a fraud. Why would anyone believe your prophet? Even the photos were doctored.
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That is of course what they tell you. But you know what, there are a lot of false spirits and false feelings. Mankind can bring upon themselves almost ever kind of feeling they like.I suspect you meant BOM is a fraud. Well you have nailed it right on the head.
This is the classic BOM challenge.
If you read the BOM and the spirit whispers that it is true, then you know that JS was a true prophet of God.
If you read it and the HS does not whisper in your ear that it is true, then you will believe that JS was not a prophet of God.
Finally, there are some that will not read the BOM, but still cry loudly that JS is a fraud. This is a totally unreliable testimony.
Good story withwonderingawe, and look what your mother has brought forth in you. You are a great researcher, I have learned a lot from your posts. Keep up the good work.My mom read the Book of Mormon about the time I was born, didn't move her at all. Eight years later she picked up an anti Mormon pamphlet and read it, she thought "I don't remember reading that in the Book of Mormon" so she dusted off her old copy and read it again, this time straight through. When she was done she called up the missionaries and asked for baptism. She was real frustrated that she had to have the discussions first.
I can show you scriptures that define the qualifications of an Apostle. Consider Acts 1 where the Apostles choose a replacement for Judas and state that he must be one who was with them all the time Christ was with them and he must be a witness of the resurrection. Note also that this passage states there were 11 Apostles (with Matthias added to them).The idea that Jesus would choose a foundational office like the Apostle, only to be there to set up a few churches aroung the Meditteranean is silly. The bible in fact disagrees with you.
Ephesians 4:11-14
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Who is he? It is Jesus that gave them.
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
What reason did Jesus give them:
1) for the perfecting of the saints. Looks like saints cannot be perfected without living apostles.
2) for the work of the ministry. You have to be living to do the work of the ministry.
3) for the edifying of the body of Christ. Looks like the body of Christ can not be edifed without living apostles.
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
How long do we need the apostles and prophets?
1) till we all come in the unity of the faith. Not till the foundation is layed??
2) till we all come to the knowledge of the Son of God. That certainly has not happened yet.
3) till we are perfect men as measured by the stature of the fulness of Christ. Are we all perfect men like Christ?
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
This is the main reason we still need apostles and prophets and others.
You say: So, there are no "living Apostles". That is a misunderstanding of the office of Apostle that the Bible teaches about.
Show me 1 scripture that says that the apostles and prophets of the church of Jesus Christ was going to go away after they layed the foundation. I have shown you a scripture that proves that is not true.
Besides it is silly to think that Jesus would set up the most important office of apostle, and not preserve it, but he would preserve a much lesser office of pastor.
What do you think happens to a house when it's foundation is weakened or ruined? It falls.
All I say to a person like you is, one day you will be in a different frame of mind and you will come to know that the bringing forth of the BOM was a miracle and you will want to know more. Someday?Who needs to read the entire BOM? Any Christian can read a few chapters of it and see that it conflicts with God's Word.
JS cannot restore what he was never a part of in the first place. There is plenty, an overwhelming amount of evidence in the BOM for us to call JS a fraud. So one does not need to read a lot of it. It is so different that the verses conflict everywhere.
Well it's kind of interesting that all of your stories are anecdotal and nothing is supported by factual, independent sources....only for people to realize that he's full of it and come right back to us.
I was actually involved in a situation where that happened.
A critic of the church was making noise on a message board I and a few others - including WWA - were on at the time. She claimed to have been a former member of the church, and that she left after reading Decker. We told her about Decker's reputation for nonsense and a number of the lies he told, at which point she agreed to re-investigate matters.
A little while later, she came back and admitted that, after investigating everything, she found that Decker was, indeed, lying. Because of this, she was going to investigate the church all over again. This time, Decker's material would be kicked to the curb so she could investigate fairly.
In response, a guy who claimed to be a Baptist minister exploded on everyone. He posted an open letter to her husband, during which he ordered the man to use "any means necessary" to stop her from rejoining the LDS faith. If she did rejoin the church, the minister pronounced, it would mean that he was a failure as a husband and a Christian.
The woman responded to the letter by noting that she and her husband were now joining the church, as neither wanted to belong to a faith tradition that would let someone like the minister be a minister.
I bear testimony that I KNOW that the Book of Mormon is False and a lie. I know this through the teaching of the Holy Spirit. I know that I will forever know the Book of Mormon to be a lie and a false scripture. I have read the Book of Mormon and prayed to God to know if it's true or false and the Holy Spirit taught me that it is completely false by giving me no burning in the bosom and by guiding me to the Word of God and teaching me that mormonism and the book of mormon are false.All I say to a person like you is, one day you will be in a different frame of mind and you will come to know that the bringing forth of the BOM was a miracle and you will want to know more. Someday?
I really don't think so. Thinking that God could author two books that conflict with each other shows that you do not understand the nature and character of a righteous God.All I say to a person like you is, one day you will be in a different frame of mind and you will come to know that the bringing forth of the BOM was a miracle and you will want to know more. Someday?
The heart is wicked above all things, who can know it?I am sure that at the very least you are mistaken and seeing things in a biased way and your mind is filling in the gaps with some sensationalized details that attune to your bias against non-mormons.
The fact that you use an internet message board, filled with faceless, anonymous members, as a basis for what you consider to be "reality" makes your views highly suspect right off the bat.
I can show you scriptures that define the qualifications of an Apostle. Consider Acts 1 where the Apostles choose a replacement for Judas and state that he must be one who was with them all the time Christ was with them and he must be a witness of the resurrection. Note also that this passage states there were 11 Apostles (with Matthias added to them).
Acts 1
20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.
21 Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,
22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.
23 And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.
24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,
25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.
26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.
Acts 10 confirms this:
Acts 10
39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:
40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;
41 Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead.
42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
Paul asserts his title of Apostle by claiming his witness of the risen Christ:
I Cor 9
1 Am I am not an apostle? am I not free? have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? are not ye my work in the Lord?
And again in I Cor. 15
I Cor 15
7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.
8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.
9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
In Ephesians 2 it gives the best picture of the fact that the Church is like a building
Ephesians 2
18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
The Apostles were clearly intended to establish the Church (with Christ as the Chief Cornerstone) and the Church is "built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets". We have the words and teachings of Christ through the Apostles in God's Holy Word, the Bible. There is nothing else to be established. The Church is the structure built on top of the foundation. The Church is the house of God through the Spirit.
To claim that there is further revelation is saying that the Bible is imperfect. That is the mormon claim, but it is wrong and it is not the Christian view at all.
Except that we've had this discussion numerous times and you've never shown an actual conflict.Who needs to read the entire BOM? Any Christian can read a few chapters of it and see that it conflicts with God's Word.
JS cannot restore what he was never a part of in the first place. There is plenty, an overwhelming amount of evidence in the BOM for us to call JS a fraud. So one does not need to read a lot of it. It is so different that the verses conflict everywhere.
Sorry, but the bible confiicts with itself in many, many, many, many ways. But we overlook that because we know that scribes make errors and they are innocent. We know that even though there is a seeming conflict, generally we can find out the reason. There are some we can't but we still know that this is the word of God and we accept it and go on. We just go on, and don't focus on the conflict.I really don't think so. Thinking that God could author two books that conflict with each other shows that you do not understand the nature and character of a righteous God.
Your God can make mistakes and conflict with Himself, my God cannot. My God is righteous, perfectly righteous.
If Jesus could make mistakes, then your Jesus cannot save you. I think it is you who hopefully God will be merciful to who will think differently later. I hope it goes well for you.
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