- Mar 18, 2003
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Yes John will die so he can be resurrected, but he won't die until after the second coming.
No, other churches are NOT more open with their finances. How much does your church pay their clergy? Do you know where your tithing money goes?
Why don't you post how much of your tithes go to pay clergy? I know how much of out tithes go to pay clergy 0%. What percent of your tithes go to the poor? Can you find out where your tithing money goes? I can find out where my tithing money goes.
Seer stones
Read your OT again and notice how many time stones are used by God to communicate something. Also each of those that enter into the Lord's presence will be given a white stone
with a new name on it.... (Revelations 2:17)
So stones have been used by the Lord in the past, and in the time of JS. A lot of people do not know this, so it can be confusing.
The Book of Abraham
The interesting thing about the Book of Abraham is that JS made some interesting interpretations of the facsimilies that came with the BOA. Many Egyptologists do not believe that JS interpreted correctly. These are the people that you have chosen to believe. Rather than your prophet and other Egyptologists that agree or partially agree with JS.
You have to remember that Egyptology is still an ongoing study. It is very difficult to know exactly what 300bc Egyptians were trying to say in their writings, let alone going back to 2000bc.
Is what JS said plausible. Many say yes, many say no. Study those that say yes and you will be better served. If you are going to doubt, why not doubt those say no, instead of those saying yes. The jury is still way to out for anyone to say this is false.
The church's racist doctrine...
Are you a Democrat. In fact, are you kidding. You were born after all men were given the right to hold priesthood. For the last 40 years all men have had the right to hold priesthood. In fact one of the largest areas of growth for the church is in black Africa. The church is all in and there is great work being done by all colors of people
throughout all the world. The church is the model that should be used by governments to mesh people of all colors in a great cause of witnessing to the world of Jesus Christ.
If you want to stay in the past and doubt the fuzzy past, do so and you will get left behind by all the colored folks you feel sorry for, who have the blessings of the priesthood and now you do not.
Polygamy and Polyandry
Polyandry has never been proved. JS did marry a few women that were married at the time to other men. However, JS marriage to them was for only "eternity". Not for "time and all eternity". "time" = "this life", "and all eternity" = "after death".
So JS marriage was for after they died, then they were married to him for eternity. So they went back to their husbands and lived out their lives without any sexual relations with JS, and when they died, then they were a wife of JS.
Polygany was a blessing to the church. It was able to grow exponentially and quickly became a nation in less time than usual. This nation then was able to defend itself, create its own economy, take care of the women who lost men in persecutions, create a missionary force quickly, etc., etc., etc.
You again are listening to the wrong people. Doubt what they say, not your prophet and leaders of the church and the actually facts about polygamy. Did some men abuse their relationships, yes, but those few can not be the examples you question. Look at all the hundreds of men and women who live the way the Lord wanted them to live at the time. Who brought to pass the word of the Lord and brought to pass a desert empire that is reaching around the world and declaring Jesus Christ is coming, prepare and repent and be ready for his second coming.
also read the OT and all the people (prophets, kings, priests, common men and women) that practiced plural marriage. The Lord allowed polygamy then, for the same reason he allowed JS and the church members to practice polygamy today. To grow a nation to the Lord, quickly.
The Kinderhook plates
Read the story from an LDS writer, and you will see how stupid this story really is. If you read it from an anti side, they tell a whole different story that is just not true.
Again, doubt the anti, do not doubt your religion.
I have looked at all of these examples you have given me many, many times and have remained faithful in the church because I doubted what they said, rather than my prophet and leaders and authors and researchers on our side. Do the same.
Yes John will die so he can be resurrected, but he won't die until after the second coming.
fascinating quote from 3 Nephi 28, there!and all this will I do because of the thing which ye have desired of me, for ye have desired that ye might bring the souls of men unto me, while the world shall stand.
LDS believe the apostle John has been alive this whole time?Before Joseph Smith restored the true gospel of Christ on earth, before he restored the priesthood in the 1800's, there was still one living apostle wandering the earth...
what is "the authority"?...and three Nephite disciples, probably with authority, having been taught by Christ and given this gift.
yes, kind of like the stories in the Touched by an Angel TV series, I'm thinking.The way I always thought of them was just as some neat folklore, fruit for spiritual stories people had of meeting these kindly, opportune strangers who granted them some mercy or kindness and then were gone.
in your understanding, has John been on Earth this whole time?John the beloved has not died, but like Elijah he was changed. He does NOT have a resurrected body yet and neither do we, but we all will.
I've had similar experiences, I assumed most churches were open about their finances and salaries.This isn't true at all. Years ago I was in a Methodist church. I was told that this large, but local, Methodist church decided to stop contributing to the World Council of Churches, on the pastor's recommendation. The pastor said that the WCC doesn't publish a financial report, to speak of, and so the local church shouldn't contribute.
In the Baptist, Methodist, and nondenominational churches I am familiar with, the pastor's salary is public information. The pastor often deals with charity cases, so there is no easy way to separate the pastor's pay from what the church spends on charity.
Tithe payers in The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints can find out where their money is spent.This isn't true at all. Years ago I was in a Methodist church. I was told that this large, but local, Methodist church decided to stop contributing to the World Council of Churches, on the pastor's recommendation. The pastor said that the WCC doesn't publish a financial report, to speak of, and so the local church shouldn't contribute.
In the Baptist, Methodist, and nondenominational churches I am familiar with, the pastor's salary is public information. The pastor often deals with charity cases, so there is no easy way to separate the pastor's pay from what the church spends on charity.
That is because they know where churches need to be built.From what I can tell, your Bishop or Stake President report how they spend the tithes they receive locally. Once they forward money to the LDS world headquarters, there is little accountability. The accountability is all local but important decisions are made at headquarters.
That is exactly what it says. He will die but not until Christ's second coming.LOL!! Scripture does not say that!! yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?
Now, why on earth would he need to die in order to be resurrected?? He has already been changed and is a "translated being" according to you guys---which means, he does not need to die and be changed---that has already been done.
I have answered those questions already.in your understanding, has John been on Earth this whole time?
if so, what has he been doing?
has he had priesthood authority here on Earth?
That is exactly what it says. He will die but not until Christ's second coming.
I have answered those questions already.
That Jesus created the world. That Jesus shed his life for our sins through 1 God everlasting. That Jesus was there on creation days, and walked with Adam and Eve is elementary Jesus Christ. We believe all those things. Do you have more?Wow!! How did I know that is what you were going to say? I must be psychic!! That is the point. LDS do not know who Jesus really is----the Creator of all things---from nothing-- who shed His life for our sins though One with God from everlasting. He was the one there at creation, walked with Adam and Eve, so many things you do not know---and if you do not know Him, He will not know you. just like the rich young ruler who did not truly love the Lord, but loved his riches---he walked away sorrowfully though he kept the commandments. and like those who did all sorts of "good, wonderful works"
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Here is the clincher.Please point to where it says :"not until Christ's 2nd coming.' For nothing comes after---
"yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?"
Where does it ever turn that "if" into an actuality?
The statement Jesus made was not really about John---it was to tell Peter---it was none of his business!
Again---why would John have to die when he has already been translated, he has al,ready been changed. Thoise thst are alive at the coming of Jesus do not die---they are translated after they are changed. And the righteous dead are raised and changed.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
It is very clear that those that are alive will need only be changed in order to be with Jesus. John has already been changed according to you guys. So he is ready to go---the word translated means to go to heaven without dying. So it is a misnomer to say John has been translated as he is still here, however, if his body has been changed then he need not die, only the dead in Christ need to be resurrected. Those that are alive it says they will not die, just be changed, for we must all be changed and John already was.
Yes I did answer them to the best of my ability. He is doing God's work.Not really---if John is a priest on earth, what priestly duties has he been performing without any temple?
That Jesus created the world. That Jesus shed his life for our sins through 1 God everlasting. That Jesus was there on creation days, and walked with Adam and Eve is elementary Jesus Christ. We believe all those things. Do you have more?
The one area we would disagree is that we believe that God did not create everything out of nothing. So read this:
The Living Words: Creation | AHRC
Anyway, we believe a lot more on the most important parts of Jesus just as you do.
Yes I did answer them to the best of my ability. He is doing God's work.
All people living at the time of Christ second coming will be changed in the twinkling of the eye. That change includes, death and resurrection instantly.Please point to where it says :"not until Christ's 2nd coming.' For nothing comes after---
"yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?"
Where does it ever turn that "if" into an actuality?
The statement Jesus made was not really about John---it was to tell Peter---it was none of his business!
Again---why would John have to die when he has already been translated, he has al,ready been changed. Thoise thst are alive at the coming of Jesus do not die---they are translated after they are changed. And the righteous dead are raised and changed.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
It is very clear that those that are alive will need only be changed in order to be with Jesus. John has already been changed according to you guys. So he is ready to go---the word translated means to go to heaven without dying. So it is a misnomer to say John has been translated as he is still here, however, if his body has been changed then he need not die, only the dead in Christ need to be resurrected. Those that are alive it says they will not die, just be changed, for we must all be changed and John already was.
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