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LDS Joseph Smith Translation (JST) of the Bible

Discussion in 'Debate Other Religions & Faiths' started by PrincetonGuy, Jul 30, 2020.

  1. PrincetonGuy

    PrincetonGuy Veteran

    +1,830
    Baptist
    Christians uphold (Greek = ἵστημι; RSV, NRSV) the law; they do NOT submit to the law.

    NOT TRUE! God gave commandments to man to serve as a disciplinarian (Do this, don’t do that—or else!).

    Gal. 3:24. Therefore the law was our disciplinarian until Christ came, so that we might be justified by faith.
    25. But now that faith has come, we are no longer subject to a disciplinarian,
    26. for in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith. (NRSV)

    However, in Christ we have no need for a disciplinarian.

    Rom. 8:2 For the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus has freed you from the law of sin and death. (NAB)

    Jesus never said so much as one word to a Christian. In the gospels, He spoke, with only one exception (Matt. 15:21-28 ), exclusively to unregenerate Jews.

    That is true. As I have written in a post above, the chapter headings in the original KJV were written by the translators of the KJV and included in that version as a part of that version. As I have also written in a post above, the LDS Church has fraudulently and maliciously changed the chapter headings.

    Any schoolboy who is honest with himself and who desires in is heart to know the truth can easily see for himself that that the quality of writing in the JST is that of a man with a very limited education and deficient writing skills. Any Christian adult who is familiar the major pseudo-Christian cults knows who that man is, and that he was a fraud, a liar, and a deceiver, and that the spiritual powers behind him were and are the rulers, the authorities, the cosmic powers of this present darkness, and the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places (Eph. 6:12). The goal of these spiritual forces of evil has been and currently is to replace the word of God with the words of a man—words that cannot save us from sin but rather further entrap us.
     
  2. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    Your Version of the Bible is wrong, The KJV is more correct, it states:

    (New Testament | Galatians 3:24 - 29)

    24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
    25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
    26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
    27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
    28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
    29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

    The commandments were there to TEACH us to LOVE one another. the commandments are LOVE, but sadly some people only see them as punishment. God is LOVE and we can know God by keeping the commandments of LOVE. A person can NOT know God unless they keep the commandments:

    (New Testament | 1 John 2:4 - 5)

    4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
    5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

    As an example to us, Jesus Christ kept the commandments. We are to walk as He walked:

    (New Testament | 1 John 2:6)

    6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.[/QUOTE]

    The first Christians were Jews, so Christ was speaking to Christians:

    "Antioch played an important role in the history of Christianity. Here for the first time, in the days of the Apostles, the members of the new faith were called "Christians" (Messianists). The first Christians were, of course, Jews, but already in the days of Paul, pagans also joined their ranks. Barnabas visited Antioch, where he dwelt together with Paul. When the apostle Peter came to Antioch he ate with the pagans, but when messengers arrived from James, the brother of Jesus, who was a Nazarene, Peter felt ashamed and withdrew from the pagan society, Barnabas following suit. According to a tradition of the church fathers, Peter headed the Christian church of Antioch for seven years.

    Antioch became a center of Christian learning and the Antiochian school of theology, which flourished in the third and fourth centuries C.E., was particularly renowned. Unlike the school of Caesarea, which interpreted the Bible allegorically and in accordance with speculative philosophy, the Antiochian school expounded the Scriptures in conformity with their historical and literal meaning. The biblical commentaries composed by this school in the fourth and fifth centuries C.E. are of great importance. In Antioch, various means were used to counteract the great influence which the Jews had upon the local Christians. The synod of Antioch (341) forbade the Christians to celebrate Easter when the Jews were observing Passover, and John Chrysostom of Antioch, in his six sermons (c. 366–387), vituperatively denounced those Christians in Antioch who attended synagogues and resorted to the Jewish law courts.

    When Christianity became the state religion, the position of the Jews of Antioch deteriorated. The Jews of Imnestar were accused of having crucified a Christian boy on the feast of Purim, and the Antiochian Christians destroyed the synagogue (423 C.E.). When the emperor Theodosius II restored it, he was rebuked by Simon Stylites and refrained from defending the Jews. In the brawls between the sport factions known as the "blues" and the "greens," many Jews were killed."

    From: Antioch
    The actual goal of the Book of Mormon is to teach people to believe in Jesus Christ and keep the commandments:

    (Book of Mormon | Moroni 7:3 - 19)

    3 Wherefore, I would speak unto you that are of the church, that are the peaceable followers of Christ, and that have obtained a sufficient hope by which ye can enter into the rest of the Lord, from this time henceforth until ye shall rest with him in heaven.
    4 And now my brethren, I judge these things of you because of your peaceable walk with the children of men.
    5 For I remember the word of God which saith by their works ye shall know them; for if their works be good, then they are good also.
    6 For behold, God hath said a man being evil cannot do that which is good; for if he offereth a gift, or prayeth unto God, except he shall do it with real intent it profiteth him nothing.
    7 For behold, it is not counted unto him for righteousness.
    8 For behold, if a man being evil giveth a gift, he doeth it grudgingly; wherefore it is counted unto him the same as if he had retained the gift; wherefore he is counted evil before God.
    9 And likewise also is it counted evil unto a man, if he shall pray and not with real intent of heart; yea, and it profiteth him nothing, for God receiveth none such.
    10 Wherefore, a man being evil cannot do that which is good; neither will he give a good gift.
    11 For behold, a bitter fountain cannot bring forth good water; neither can a good fountain bring forth bitter water; wherefore, a man being a servant of the devil cannot follow Christ; and if he follow Christ he cannot be a servant of the devil.
    12 Wherefore, all things which are good cometh of God; and that which is evil cometh of the devil; for the devil is an enemy unto God, and fighteth against him continually, and inviteth and enticeth to sin, and to do that which is evil continually.
    13 But behold, that which is of God inviteth and enticeth to do good continually; wherefore, every thing which inviteth and enticeth to do good, and to love God, and to serve him, is inspired of God.
    14 Wherefore, take heed, my beloved brethren, that ye do not judge that which is evil to be of God, or that which is good and of God to be of the devil.
    15 For behold, my brethren, it is given unto you to judge, that ye may know good from evil; and the way to judge is as plain, that ye may know with a perfect knowledge, as the daylight is from the dark night.
    16 For behold, the Spirit of Christ is given to every man, that he may know good from evil; wherefore, I show unto you the way to judge; for every thing which inviteth to do good, and to persuade to believe in Christ, is sent forth by the power and gift of Christ; wherefore ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of God.
    17 But whatsoever thing persuadeth men to do evil, and believe not in Christ, and deny him, and serve not God, then ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of the devil; for after this manner doth the devil work, for he persuadeth no man to do good, no, not one; neither do his angels; neither do they who subject themselves unto him.
    18 And now, my brethren, seeing that ye know the light by which ye may judge, which light is the light of Christ, see that ye do not judge wrongfully; for with that same judgment which ye judge ye shall also be judged.
    19 Wherefore, I beseech of you, brethren, that ye should search diligently in the light of Christ that ye may know good from evil; and if ye will lay hold upon every good thing, and condemn it not, ye certainly will be a child of Christ.
     
  3. Tra Phull

    Tra Phull Ecumenical Loose Canon

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    The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set me free from the law of sin and death.
     
  4. PrincetonGuy

    PrincetonGuy Veteran

    +1,830
    Baptist
    I see that some comments on the lexicography of the Greek New Testament are called for here. By the early 1900’s, the new studies in the lexicography of Koine Greek had become so great in number and significance that Erwin Preuschen published his Greek-German lexicon in 1910. Upon his death in 1920, the revision of his lexicon was entrusted to Walter Bauer and this revision was published in 1928 as the second edition. In 1930, James Hope Mouton and George Milligan independently published The Vocabulary of the Greek Testament. A thoroughly revised edition of the Preuschen lexicon was published in 1937 with only Bauer’s name on the title page. Bauer realized, however, that his lexicon, although a huge improvement over Thayer’s in terms of accuracy and completeness, needed to be thoroughly revised and updated and therefore undertook a thorough search of all Greek literature down to the Byzantine times to determine more precisely the meaning of the words found in the New Testament. This resulted in the publication of the monumental work, Griechisch-Deutsches Wörterbuch zu den Schriften des Neuen Testaments und der übrigen urchristlichen Literatur in 1949-1952. An English translation (by William F. Arndt and F. Wilbur Gingrich) of this lexicon was published by the University of Chicago in 1957 with the title, Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and other Early Christian Literature and became widely known as the “Bauer, Arndt, and Gingrich Lexicon.” A second edition was published by the University of Chicago in 1979. A thorough revision by Frederick William Danker was published by the University of Chicago in 2000. It is very commonly referred to simply as the “BDAG” and this name appears on the title page in parenthesis below the full title.

    The KJV was completed 300 years before any of this research was completed, and now we know for certain that the translation of παιδαγωγός in the KJV is seriously incorrect. Indeed, in the BDAG we read on page 748 for παιδαγωγός, “one who has the responsibility for someone who needs guidance, guardian, leader, guide… Paul evaluates the Mosaic law as a παιδαγωγὸς εἰς Χριστόν [guardian until Christ—my translation] where the emphasis is on the constrictive function of the law in contrast to the freedom in the gospel.”

    I quoted from the NAB (with the Revised New Testament (1986) and the NRSV because the NAB is without question the best Roman Catholic translation of the Bible, and the NRSV is today, among scholars, the most frequently quoted English translation of the Bible. The NRSV is an exceptionally useful Bible because it is the product of millions of man-hours of research by scores of intellectually gifted scholars over a period of 119 years! Furthermore, in the many places where the correct translation is in doubt, we find in the margin alternate translations. For the word “disciplinarian,” they do not provide an alternate translation because the translators do not believe that a significantly different translation would be accurate.

    A fundamental teaching of the New Testament is that unless a person has been reborn in Christ, that person has NOT been regenerated and that person has NOT become a Christian! No one was reborn is Christ until after the ascension of Christ. Therefore, Jesus could have spoken to any Christians.

    … and thereby further entrapping them in sin—the ultimate evil!
     
  5. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    Jesus Christ atoned for the sins of those who truly repent and are baptized. That being said we should NOT return to those sins:

    (New Testament | Hebrews 10:26)

    26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
    (New Testament | 2 Peter 2:21 - 22)

    21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
    22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
     
  6. Dale

    Dale Senior Veteran Supporter

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    You claim that the Bible was corrupted, or you accept Joseph Smith's claim that the Bible was corrupted. This goes beyond saying that Biblical authors were limited by their time, the claim is that what they wrote has not accurately come down to us.

    Let's take the New Testament. When do you say that the NT was corrupted? By who? What was the agenda of whoever changed it? If JS says the NT was edited and revised by someone along the way, he ought to have something to say about when and where this was done, and by who.

    Early in the history of Islam, after the death of Mohammed, a man named Uthman was the Caliph, Mohammed's successor as leader of the faith. The Koran had been issued and numerous copies had been taken to various places. Uthman decided that the Koran should be revised. He recalled all copies of the first Koran, had it revised and destroyed all copies of the original Koran. No copy of the original Koran survives. A new, improved Koran was sent out. It must be interesting to have that kind of power over the sacred scriptures of your religion.

    In Christian history, there is no Uthman. The early Christians had no central authority capable of revising the New Testament scriptures. Christians were scattered across the Roman Empire, often meeting in secret. Christians endured enormous persecution but the scriptures were treasured. Copies have been found over the whole of the Roman Empire and they match up very well.

    The evidence is that the New Testament scriptures that came down to us are sound. I remember Josh McDowell making this point.
     
  7. Dale

    Dale Senior Veteran Supporter

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    You ask if the apocrypha should be included in the Bible. I have read a number of the apocryphal books and have seen no reason that they should be. I don't see how any of them are any closer to Mormon belief than the accepted books of the Bible.

    For the New Testament, apocryphal gospels, epistles and apocalypses were generally excluded for two reasons. Either they were written too late or they show Gnostic influence, or both. These are good reasons for keeping these works out of the canon. Books that were written too late are not written by witnesses to the life of Jesus Christ and its aftermath. The Gnostics have an agenda that isn't consistent with Christianity. It isn't consistent with Mormonism, either.
     
  8. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    It was not Joseph Smith's claim that the Bible was corrupted, it was the angel of the Lord and it was given to Nephi. It can be found in the Book of Mormon in 1 Nephi 13: 21-29. Joseph Smith considered the work of translating the Bible as a part of his calling as prophet.
     
  9. Daniel Marsh

    Daniel Marsh Well-Known Member

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    It seems to me, if it really was God having JS correct the Bible. God would have JS do that first.
     
  10. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    I think it was more important to do the Book of Mormon first. But then that is just my opinion.
     
  11. Daniel Marsh

    Daniel Marsh Well-Known Member

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    same here, but if one wanted to correct what was lost....
     
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