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Of course: GwynApNudd doesn't agree with you, nor does GwynApNudd accept the Baptist Faith and Message in toto -- and that makes GwynApNudd a dangerous person.
Kinda like me.
And it wasn't meant to explain it. Not one time in the several occasions that men in the Bible took more than one wife did God EVER change what He says in His Word about ONE HUSBAND and ONE WIFE.
The Bible is riddled with men doing things against what God had said. And I gotta say that God is brilliant. In making the cream of the crop just as susceptible to sin as everyone else, He shows why ALL need a Savior.
Your station or lot in life do not free you up from committing sin. And these Bible greats were no exception.
Nothing at all like you. You're on one side of the fence.
Oh, OK. God married Mr. Adam and Mrs. Eve in a Christian ceremony in the Garden of Eden, and then then pronounced them "man and wife" and that's why God has never blessed men having multiple wives and concubines (even though God explicitly told men to take multiple wives and concubines; and the great heroes of the Bible through David and Solomon had multiple wives and concubines which the Lord had given them).
Makes perfect sense to me.
With the goats, I presume?
You speculate because you desperately want it to be true. It is not.
I think the relationship between Jonathan and David shows a beautiful intimacy...an intimacy so indescribable that the author had to use "surpassing the love of a woman."I believe the relationship between David and Jonthan is misunderstood by many people to be a sexual one.
That is one for the record books, dayhiker!I've noticed this as well. A relationship is solid for years, then there is one sexual sin and its like they killed ones entire family!
A related side note. I had a guy freind. The men in his family where very macho, always getting together to watch sports, playing sports, hunting trips etc. He told me after he became a Christian that he started to understand that the homosexual temptation he had come from the macho attitude. The male charactoristics were so idolized that males became sexually desireable.
I found that really interesting.
dayhiker
You raise good questions.Of everyone who posted, HaloHope is the only one who understood the question I asked. I specifically made the question not about the Jonathan and David of the Bible, except by example because I did not want to get into that issue in this thread.
Again:
I have heard, over and over again by Christians the doctrine that homosexuals cannot love another, they can only lust after one another. I'm just asking how that doctrine relates to a situation like this.
If you do not teach this doctrine, then this question was not directed at you. You are free to express your own doctrine on the issue, of course, and I'll be happy to hear it. But it is the only point of this this thread: reconciling that doctrine to this type of situation.
I have maturity in Christ - and I don't see it at all.Are you on some sort of Christian vendetta? You know goodness well that there is a very tiny portion of the sane Christian community who think people of the same sex can't love one another, just as there is a small portion of the gay community who actually thinks Christians hate them.
Gwyn, I swear that something just aint right about you. You continue to paint Christians in a bad light while encouraging sinful behavior. Yeah you are. You can deny it, but every Christian with amodicum of maturity can see it.
Then play fair and ask the other side why they always paint Christians with a broad brush as hateful and bigoted.
I don't think he is putting down Christianity per se.No need for confusion. You seem to have a knack for putting down Christianity in your threads before you make your point. That's all I was pointing out.
You seem to have an established pattern of demonizing some aspect of Christendom in order to garner support for the point you're trying to make.
Ah - now we see into the hearts of men, do we?You speculate because you desperately want it to be true. It is not.
Huh???
I am asking a question because I want to learn. It is a doctrine that does not make sense to me. But it must make sense to the people who espouse it. I just want to hear their explanation.
What is it that you claim I desparately want to be true? That gays can't love?
Ah - now we see into the hearts of men, do we?
I was referring to the erroneous idea that Jonathan and David were gay.
The doctrine is not an attack on a homosexual's ability to love, however, the bible is clear that anything outside the covenant of marriage (between a man and a woman) is sexual sin.
But I specifically said that this post was not about Jonathan and David being or not being gay. That is why I framed the question about two present-day friends.
I assume that you are describing the doctrine that you hold to. And if you are, it is a more compassionate and understanding doctrine than the one I'm asking about.
But the doctrine I asked about is one I have heard repeated many, many times. Maybe it is only a very small segment of Fundamentalist Christianity that hold this doctrine, but if so, it is an unusually vocal segment.
Whatever anyone thinks about the physical relationship between Jonathan and David, there is no denying that the emotional and spiritual bond was real and was strong. [bible]1 Samuel 18:1[/bible]
Many anti-gay Christians teach that gays can't have a loving relationship with one another. That they can't feel love, but only lust.
I'm not sure where this idea comes from. I suspect that it comes from Romans 1:27 "[they] burned in their lust for one another." But it doesn't really matter where the idea came from, it is very common.
So I want to ask. Suppose you knew two friends. Friends a lot like Jonathan and David. Close friends whose souls are knit together. For years they encourage one another in their walks with the Lord. They become well respected in their church.
Then, one day, for whatever reason, there comes a day -- just one day, just one time -- when they become physical. Does that mean that their entire lives were lies? That they never loved one another, only lusted after one another? That their entire testimony in the church must be thrown out?
If you have a more compassionate view of the matter, please,hold off on any heated rhetoric against those who hold the "lust not love" view that I'm asking about, at least until they have a chance to explain it.
and, from another thread:Somewhere they crossed the line, just as perverse as pedophilia. You just don't naturally desire a friend in that way. God did not place that desire in us.
As Christian men, they would have to repent, and get counselling, and even drop their ministries, and seek restoration to leadership, as they would have made a serious breach.
They can experience a "form" of love, an outlawed form, which is not the love that God places in us for the opposite sex.
Homosexual love starts with an unnatural lust, and moves deeper, but it isn't true love. That said, it, being a counterfeit, does quite the number on the psyche...it takes an act of God to restore the person to wholeness, to actually love the way God commands.
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