John the baptist: Matt3:1-12

[mindlight]

Matt 3:1-12 is the background verse for a sermon I will give in a few weeks.

I want to use this Thread to try and understand the passage. Advice and insights would be appreciated.

Focusing on JB himself. He is a simple man dressed in Camel hair and leather, living in a desert, eating locusts and honey. Yet the people and even religious leaders go out to meet him in this inhospitable place. Clearly God was with him and this explains his pull.

He is a prophet anticipated in Isaiah. He is angry at the smug self regard and hypocrisy of the Pharisees. He is hopeful that the Messiah is coming soon. He urges people to be ready for that , they need to repent. It must be genuine repentance

JBs theology and view of the Messiah is what really interests me. JB was in effect the last of the OT prophets looking forward to the Messiah and longing for his arrival. There is a "be ready or else" theme to his preaching. Be ready or the Ax will fall, do not trust in your inheritance as a son of Abraham but rather let us see the fruit of repentance in your life. The Messiah is painted as one who would bring judgment. One who would separate the wheat from the chaff. He is portrayed as a man of power baptising with fire and the Holy Spirit.

My questions are these:

1) The contrast between Johns understanding of what the Messiah would be and what The ministry of Jesus on earth would be was so great that John himself sent disciples to ask if Jesus was in fact the Messiah. Jesus answer was on the lines of look at my fruit and deeds. The blind see, the lame walk...etc

Why was the contrast between Johns picture of the Messiah and what Jesus did so great?

At the Second Coming Jesus will be this Judge and fiery presence but in the experience of JB he was not that.

2) was JBs picture of the Messiah in fact quite culture bound? The Jews of the time were looking for a powerful political Saviour from the Romans. One who would judge their enemies. Is this also JBs impression or is he actually testing each individuals response to the Messiah and does not care if they are Jews or Romans?

3) I thought JB was Jesus's cousin. Did they never meet before the Baptism of Jesus in the Jordan?! If he had met him would he have painted the Messiah as this powerful judge angry at sin.

 

[delaD3]

Matt 3:1-12 is the background verse for a sermon I will give in a few weeks.

I want to use this Thread to try and understand the passage. Advice and insights would be appreciated.

Focusing on JB himself. He is a simple man dressed in Camel hair and leather, living in a desert, eating locusts and honey. Yet the people and even religious leaders go out to meet him in this inhospitable place. Clearly God was with him and this explains his pull.

He is a prophet anticipated in Isaiah. He is angry at the smug self regard and hypocrisy of the Pharisees. He is hopeful that the Messiah is coming soon. He urges people to be ready for that , they need to repent. It must be genuine repentance

JBs theology and view of the Messiah is what really interests me. JB was in effect the last of the OT prophets looking forward to the Messiah and longing for his arrival. There is a "be ready or else" theme to his preaching. Be ready or the Ax will fall, do not trust in your inheritance as a son of Abraham but rather let us see the fruit of repentance in your life. The Messiah is painted as one who would bring judgment. One who would separate the wheat from the chaff. He is portrayed as a man of power baptising with fire and the Holy Spirit.

My questions are these:

1) The contrast between Johns understanding of what the Messiah would be and what The ministry of Jesus on earth would be was so great that John himself sent disciples to ask if Jesus was in fact the Messiah. Jesus answer was on the lines of look at my fruit and deeds. The blind see, the lame walk...etc

Why was the contrast between Johns picture of the Messiah and what Jesus did so great?

At the Second Coming Jesus will be this Judge and fiery presence but in the experience of JB he was not that.

2) was JBs picture of the Messiah in fact quite culture bound? The Jews of the time were looking for a powerful political Saviour from the Romans. One who would judge their enemies. Is this also JBs impression or is he actually testing each individuals response to the Messiah and does not care if they are Jews or Romans?

3) I thought JB was Jesus's cousin. Did they never meet before the Baptism of Jesus in the Jordan?! If he had met him would he have painted the Messiah as this powerful judge angry at sin.

Hi. God bless you in Jesus' Name, Amen.

1st:
"Focusing on JB himself. He is a simple man dressed in Camel hair and leather, living in a desert, eating locusts and honey. Yet the people and even religious leaders go out to meet him in this inhospitable place. Clearly God was with him and this explains his pull."

I am not sure if the religious leaders went out into the 'wilderness' to meet with John the Baptist, the son of Zacharias and Elizabeth. John's earthly father, Zacharias, was informed that his son would be of God. Luke 1:11-17 "Then an angel of the Lord appeared to him, standing on the right side of the altar of incense. And when Zacharias saw him, he was troubled, and fear fell upon him. But the angel said to him, “Do not be afraid, Zacharias, for your prayer is heard; and your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you shall call his name John. And you will have joy and gladness, and many will rejoice at his birth. For he will be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink. He will also be filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his mother’s womb. And he will turn many of the children of Israel to the Lord their God. He will also go before Him in the spirit and power of Elijah, ‘to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children,’ and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just, to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.”
http://biblehub.com/commentaries/guzik/commentaries/4201.htm

Also remember that John leaped in the womb of his mother when he heard the voice of Mary, Jesus' mother. Luke 1:41 "And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:"


i do recall from The Holy Bible that the religious leaders as well as the other members of the community went out into the Jordan valley to hear and listen to John.

2nd: I'm not sure if John 'hoped' for the Messiah to be coming soon. Rather I think John knew the Messiah was coming soon.. John 1:27
"He it is, who coming after me is preferred before me, whose shoe's latchet I am not worthy to unloose."

3rd: "There is a "be ready or else" theme to his preaching. Be ready or the Ax will fall, do not trust in your inheritance as a son of Abraham but rather let us see the fruit of repentance in your life."

A thought like the above statement is a bit frightening. A 'be ready OR else' kind of fear. What if I wasn't ready? Then what would happen to me? Would I be burnt up or cut by His Ax because I wasn't 'ready'? And so this kind of thinking is scary.

In rehabilitative programs, such thinking is known as 'stinking thinking'. These are thoughts that hinder and or prevent positive growth. The thoughts such as, 'once an addict always an addict' and 'if i did it once, i'm more likely going to do it again'... Such thoughts hinder growth and rehabilitation. It does not 'aid' in healing. And so the concept of 'be ready OR else' is more of a hindrance than a growth possibility. There is NO sin 'grave' enough for a person to have to feel as if GOD is going to blow hot fire upon them without ceasing.. There can be NO fault that God could see that would be so bad. Think about it... If law officials and Court Judges are lenient with criminals, how much more gracious would God be than the law officials and Court Judges? All God 'ASKS' of us is for us to 'talk' with Him and give Him some of 'our' time. He wants to get to talk and speak with us and He wants to hear what we have to say on things that matter to ourselves. HE wants a personal relationship ... not just a collective group of people praising.

4th: John's idea of the Messiah versus what Christ actually was in Person.... John knew that Christ, or the Messiah, was the Holy One of God, The Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. Maybe the reason why John may have had a little doubt or questioning would be because John did NOT see all the sins taken away in one 'AX swipe.' John continued seeing sin after sin, even with those who 'repented' and so John may have been confused. But with the works of Christ, John may have learned that there are other things in life which need attention, such as healing and curing and raising... These parts were also necessary for a person's well being.

5th: As far as Jesus being some 'reliever' from Roman Rule, John would have been a part of Israel under Roman rule. And since John came out of the desert with nothing more than a robe and belt, the Romans may not have looked too highly upon him. For John to have thought that the Messiah would free Israel from being under Roman jurisdiction would mean that John wanted to be left to his own devices to provide for his own provisions and not have any Roman provisions towards the poor of the land.

 

[delaD3]

But please also be wise and please also be careful....

1 Peter 5:8
"Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:"

Although goodness is from The Father of Lights, Who Is God, there are still dangerous ones out there who desire to devour the innocent lambs of God. Wolves in sheep's clothing enter in unawares into love feasts towards Christ and turn them more into wolves than themselves, if allowed. So although rehabilitation and growth and healing are ALL good things, everyone needs to be careful when out in the world with all of God's goodness in their lives.

 

[delaD3]

Here would be my suggestion to you if you are truly preparing a sermon for the listeners... First.. Getting rid of your avatar might help others who know you and know who you are online be more at ease into listening to what you have to say and offer. The avatar you chose to reperesent you is very similar to the symbol of Islam. And if any person who might be at your service see you preaching Christ and yet showing allegiance to Islam, it may confuse the listener and you may be more of a 'stumbling' block to them than a way to Christ.

Here is a the similarity between your avatar and the picture which is associated with Islam...

 

[delaD3]

Here is a more accurate picture...

 

[delaD3]

Here is a list, uncomplete, of Arabic words that start with the letter 'N'.

http://answering-islam.org/Books/Hughes/n.htm

AN-NABA

"The information." The title of the LXXCIIIth Surah of the Qur'an, in the second verse of which the word occurs: "Of the mighty information whereon they do dispute."
NABALIGH

A Persian term used for a minor. [PUBERTY.]
NABBASH

A plunderer or stripper of the dead. According to the Imams Abu Yusuf and ash-Shafi'i, the hand of a plunderer of the dead should be struck off, but Abu Hanifah and the Imam Muhammad are of the contrary opinion (Hidayah, vol. ii. p. 94.)
NABI

Heb.

. A Prophet. One who has received direct inspiration (wahy) by means of an angel, or by the inspiration of the heart (ilham); or has seen the thing of God in a dream. (Vide Kitabu ‘t-Ta'rifat). A rasul, or "messenger," is one who has received a book through the angel Gabriel. [PROPHETS.]
NABIZ

A kind of wine made from dates, which is lawful. (Hidayah, vol. iv. p. 155.)
NAD-I-‘ALI

Persian. An amulet on which is inscribed a prayer to ‘Ali. It is much used by the Shi'ahs, and runs thus:-
"Cry aloud to ‘Ali, who is the possessor of wonders!
From him you will find help from trouble!
He takes away very quickly all grief and anxiety!
By the mission of Muhammad and his own sanctity!"
NAFAQAH

[MAINTENANCE.]
AN-NAFI

"The Profiter." One of the ninety-nine names or attributes of God. It does not occur in the Qur'an.
NAFI

A slave belonging to Ibn ‘Umar. Many traditions have been handed down by him, and his authority is highly respected. Died, A.H. 177.
NAFKH

"Blowing." The blast on the Day of Judgement which will be sounded by Israfil.
NAFL

"A voluntary act." A term applied to such acts of devotion as are not enjoined by the teaching of Muhammad or by his example. A work of supererogation. [PRAYER.]
NAF

Blowing as a necromancer when making incantations.
(1) it occurs in this sense in the Qur'am, Surah cxiii. 4: "I seek refuge.... from the evil of the blowers upon knots." Referring to those witches who make knots in a string and blow upon them, uttering some incantation.
(2) It is also used for the inspirations which Muhammad professed to have received from Gabriel. (Majma'u ‘l-Bihar, p. 376.)
NAFS

Animal life; soul; substance; desire. A word which occurs in the Qur'an and the Traditions for the human conscience. [CONSCIENCE.]


The list continues on the web site...

 

[delaD3]

supposedly the way to spell Nazarene in Arabic is:


It seems as if this word starts with the 'alif' in arabic and NOT the nun of Arabic.
الناصري

 

[delaD3]

ظ ض ذ خ ث ت ش ر ق ص ف ع س ن م ل ك ي ط ح ز و ه د ج ب ا

Components of a ligature for "Allah": 1. alif 2. hamzat waṣl (همزة وصل) 3. lām 4. lām 5. shadda (شدة) 6. dagger alif (ألف خنجرية) 7. hāʾ

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_alphabet

 

[delaD3]

http://the-levant.com/iraq-crisis-christian-genocide-one-talks/

What does it mean, then, to stand up with those who are no longer even in Mosul?

 

[delaD3]

Okay, and now let's get down to some basic questions....

#1: How can certain individual persons hate Christianity so much, without being a tormented one of God, to kill off an entire group of People of Christians in Mosul?

#2: How does a normal human being become so tormented towards Christianity and certain individuals who desire to be Christians that they feel as if they need to 'run' them off, kill them or and get rid of every evidence of them in their home towns?

#3: How does a normal human being not have a second thought in 'slitting' the throats of children, women and aged men just because of their 'faith?'

#4: And once again.... How does any individual become soooo tormented at Christianity that he or she feels the absolute need to kill off every Christian in THEIR home town or else go crazy living with them?

Devils? Demons? Haters? Witches? Christian Crusaders? Atheists? Corporate Profiteers? Unemployed? Overly Worked and taxed? Spies?

How does any individual PERSON who had a mother and father in their life time, who received love in their lifetime, become so murderous to ONLY the Christian population?

How does a son or daughter to a father and mother on earth become a murderer of other people's fathers and mothers and children?

It is well documented that Adolf Hilter was a man, of natural birth, who excessively did drugs. All through his political career, he was constantly on drugs of some sort. And it was during these times of drug induced ideations and sleep deprivations that he 'forced' himself to carry onward until his goal was accomplished. And such a 'forcing' of the human mind and human body, will lead a person into becoming a bit 'deranged'.

Once any act becomes 'routine', the act no longer is as bad as when the act was first committed. Murder, Sex, Drugs, Pornography, Thefts, Graffitti, Property Damage, Shootings, Ditching School, Drinking.... All of these becomes, almost, second nature when you have done it enough times.

And this may be a reason why God Almighty has given us the opportunity to get involved in 'love' relationships. Without having received 'love' from God, we are incapable of sharing any form of 'love' with any other person.

1 John 4:19
"We love because God first loved us." ISV

To me, the only rational answer I can come up with thus far is this: That that person, the murderous one who did grow up receiving love had too much enjoyment in his or her murderings. And so the murderings became somewhat of a 'drug' that caused him or her into becoming 'addicted' to that drug.

Sometimes at night, before I fall asleep, I often fear for my own mother's safety and welfare. Who knows, her home was already broken into once with masked men with knives being held to her throat. How they got in a secured building, a secured gate door, a secured locked and bolted door... is unknown...

But as she is still going strong and in hope, yet with much more trepidation towards life, so I also try.

 

[delaD3]

xx

 

[delaD3]

xx

 

[delaD3]

And yet, not even World Governments can stop a band of 200,000 members who call themselves Isi.L

The population of the United States alone, is over 320 Million People.

 

[delaD3]

The Islamic State (Isis) has recruited an army hundreds of thousands strong, far larger than previous estimates by the CIA, according to a senior Kurdish leader. He said the ability of Isis to attack on many widely separated fronts in Iraq and Syria at the same time shows that the number of militant fighters is at least 200,000, seven or eight times bigger than foreign in intelligence estimates of up to 31,500 men.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-of-200000-claims-kurdish-leader-9863418.html

More than 400 of these refugee families have passed through Qaraqosh alone. This is only a fraction of the the several thousand Christians who were in Mosul until recently. http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/iraq-turmoil/battle-mosul-won-t-end-ouster-isis-n668166

Maybe World Governments know something that the rest of the world does not.. Maybe Isi.L is being allowed to live?

 

[tz620q]

Matt 3:1-12 is the background verse for a sermon I will give in a few weeks.

I want to use this Thread to try and understand the passage. Advice and insights would be appreciated.

Focusing on JB himself. He is a simple man dressed in Camel hair and leather, living in a desert, eating locusts and honey. Yet the people and even religious leaders go out to meet him in this inhospitable place. Clearly God was with him and this explains his pull.

He is a prophet anticipated in Isaiah. He is angry at the smug self regard and hypocrisy of the Pharisees. He is hopeful that the Messiah is coming soon. He urges people to be ready for that , they need to repent. It must be genuine repentance

JBs theology and view of the Messiah is what really interests me. JB was in effect the last of the OT prophets looking forward to the Messiah and longing for his arrival. There is a "be ready or else" theme to his preaching. Be ready or the Ax will fall, do not trust in your inheritance as a son of Abraham but rather let us see the fruit of repentance in your life. The Messiah is painted as one who would bring judgment. One who would separate the wheat from the chaff. He is portrayed as a man of power baptising with fire and the Holy Spirit.

My questions are these:

1) The contrast between Johns understanding of what the Messiah would be and what The ministry of Jesus on earth would be was so great that John himself sent disciples to ask if Jesus was in fact the Messiah. Jesus answer was on the lines of look at my fruit and deeds. The blind see, the lame walk...etc

Why was the contrast between Johns picture of the Messiah and what Jesus did so great?

At the Second Coming Jesus will be this Judge and fiery presence but in the experience of JB he was not that.

2) was JBs picture of the Messiah in fact quite culture bound? The Jews of the time were looking for a powerful political Saviour from the Romans. One who would judge their enemies. Is this also JBs impression or is he actually testing each individuals response to the Messiah and does not care if they are Jews or Romans?

3) I thought JB was Jesus's cousin. Did they never meet before the Baptism of Jesus in the Jordan?! If he had met him would he have painted the Messiah as this powerful judge angry at sin.

You might want to bookend Matthew with some of the last words from God in the OT from Malachi 3:1
“I will send my messenger, who will prepare the way before me. Then suddenly the Lord you are seeking will come to his temple; the messenger of the covenant, whom you desire, will come,” says the Lord Almighty.

and Malachi 4:1-6
1 “Surely the day is coming; it will burn like a furnace. All the arrogant and every evildoer will be stubble, and the day that is coming will set them on fire,” says the Lord Almighty. “Not a root or a branch will be left to them. 2 But for you who revere my name, the sun of righteousness will rise with healing in its rays. And you will go out and frolic like well-fed calves. 3 Then you will trample on the wicked; they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day when I act,” says the Lord Almighty.

4 “Remember the law of my servant Moses, the decrees and laws I gave him at Horeb for all Israel.

5 “See, I will send the prophet Elijah to you before that great and dreadful day of the Lord comes. 6 He will turn the hearts of the parents to their children, and the hearts of the children to their parents; or else I will come and strike the land with total destruction.”

Then the next words from God are from Luke 1:11-17
11 Then an angel of the Lord appeared to him, standing at the right side of the altar of incense. 12 When Zechariah saw him, he was startled and was gripped with fear. 13 But the angel said to him: “Do not be afraid, Zechariah; your prayer has been heard. Your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you are to call him John. 14 He will be a joy and delight to you, and many will rejoice because of his birth, 15 for he will be great in the sight of the Lord. He is never to take wine or other fermented drink, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit even before he is born. 16 He will bring back many of the people of Israel to the Lord their God. 17 And he will go on before the Lord, in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the parents to their children and the disobedient to the wisdom of the righteous—to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.”

So I would think that John's parents would have related this parallel to John and he was merely fulfilling the role as he understood it to be. I don't think anyone at that time could have comprehended God's true plan.

As far as John knowing Jesus well, I don't know. We do know that Elizabeth and Zechariah lived near Jerusalem and Joseph and Mary in Nazareth. So the opportunities to meet may have been few. Or maybe the Gospel of John got it right and John the Baptist knew Jesus as the Messiah, not only in vitro, but when he saw him near the Jordan from afar. Maybe that recognition was already there and he was just telling the others about it.

 

[Yahu_]

Why was the contrast between Johns picture of the Messiah and what Jesus did so great?

The Jews consider two forms of the messiah, ie 'messiah ben David', the ruling messiah and 'messiah ben Joseph', the suffering messiah. The Jews expected the 'ruling messiah' to be the 1st occurrence. They had it backwards.

Yes John was teaching on the aspects of the messiah but IMO he was reading into the cultural situation and expected the messiah to come to rule.

IMO, the same was the error of Judas. He expected Yeshua to overthrow the Romans. Judas was a zeolot. He set up the conflict with the Romans but didn't get the outcome he was expecting.

 

[mindlight]

Here would be my suggestion to you if you are truly preparing a sermon for the listeners... First.. Getting rid of your avatar might help others who know you and know who you are online be more at ease into listening to what you have to say and offer. The avatar you chose to reperesent you is very similar to the symbol of Islam. And if any person who might be at your service see you preaching Christ and yet showing allegiance to Islam, it may confuse the listener and you may be more of a 'stumbling' block to them than a way to Christ.

Here is a the similarity between your avatar and the picture which is associated with Islam...

http://davemiers.com/arabic-nazarene/

 

[mindlight]

supposedly the way to spell Nazarene in Arabic is:


It seems as if this word starts with the 'alif' in arabic and NOT the nun of Arabic.
الناصري

Isis used the n

 

[mindlight]

http://the-levant.com/iraq-crisis-christian-genocide-one-talks/

What does it mean, then, to stand up with those who are no longer even in Mosul?

Why should this absence of Christians due to ISIS be something we accept. When Mosul falls and proper government is restored there maybe Christians will again be allowed to live in peace there.

 

[mindlight]

Okay, and now let's get down to some basic questions....

#1: How can certain individual persons hate Christianity so much, without being a tormented one of God, to kill off an entire group of People of Christians in Mosul?

#2: How does a normal human being become so tormented towards Christianity and certain individuals who desire to be Christians that they feel as if they need to 'run' them off, kill them or and get rid of every evidence of them in their home towns?

#3: How does a normal human being not have a second thought in 'slitting' the throats of children, women and aged men just because of their 'faith?'

#4: And once again.... How does any individual become soooo tormented at Christianity that he or she feels the absolute need to kill off every Christian in THEIR home town or else go crazy living with them?

Devils? Demons? Haters? Witches? Christian Crusaders? Atheists? Corporate Profiteers? Unemployed? Overly Worked and taxed? Spies?

How does any individual PERSON who had a mother and father in their life time, who received love in their lifetime, become so murderous to ONLY the Christian population?

How does a son or daughter to a father and mother on earth become a murderer of other people's fathers and mothers and children?

It is well documented that Adolf Hilter was a man, of natural birth, who excessively did drugs. All through his political career, he was constantly on drugs of some sort. And it was during these times of drug induced ideations and sleep deprivations that he 'forced' himself to carry onward until his goal was accomplished. And such a 'forcing' of the human mind and human body, will lead a person into becoming a bit 'deranged'.

Once any act becomes 'routine', the act no longer is as bad as when the act was first committed. Murder, Sex, Drugs, Pornography, Thefts, Graffitti, Property Damage, Shootings, Ditching School, Drinking.... All of these becomes, almost, second nature when you have done it enough times.

And this may be a reason why God Almighty has given us the opportunity to get involved in 'love' relationships. Without having received 'love' from God, we are incapable of sharing any form of 'love' with any other person.

1 John 4:19
"We love because God first loved us." ISV

To me, the only rational answer I can come up with thus far is this: That that person, the murderous one who did grow up receiving love had too much enjoyment in his or her murderings. And so the murderings became somewhat of a 'drug' that caused him or her into becoming 'addicted' to that drug.

Sometimes at night, before I fall asleep, I often fear for my own mother's safety and welfare. Who knows, her home was already broken into once with masked men with knives being held to her throat. How they got in a secured building, a secured gate door, a secured locked and bolted door... is unknown...

But as she is still going strong and in hope, yet with much more trepidation towards life, so I also try.

Military annihilation and driving these guys out of Mosul once and for all is one the tools for defeating IS and also removing the fear of them from people in the region.

Going back to the sermon topic. People have been afraid of these Pharisees with AK-47s for too long in the middle east. Now that the worst had happened and Christians have lost all their possessions and sometimes their lives also at the hands of these people the church still exists. It still stands in Christ and it is he who will have the last word. Maybe our understanding of Christianity has softened too much in the last 100 years following world wars and terrible costs of them. But the God we love and who wants a personal relationship with us is also a stern judge and his judgments come at the time and in the manner of his choosing. IS is a blasphemy against God , calling on his name to justify murder. extortion, rape and slavery. Our fierce Lord will see justice done in Mosul and in Raqqa.