John MacArthur teaches Purgatory.....again.

[MrPolo]

Anyone hear his sermon this morning? It's appropriately titled "What we will be like." If I had just read a transcript, I probably would have assumed it was a sermon from a Catholic priest. He went on about how we've received Christ, but it's the "first fruits" and we still have sin to deal with, and eventually we'll be perfect in heaven with no sinful blemishes. I kid you not. His whole bent was that we must be detached from sin completely to get into heaven, and he even cited Revelation 21:27 to boot!!! It's not the first time he taught this.

Here is the MP3 from this morning (the link will last for a couple weeks.)

Now, mind you there is no small irony that this is the same guy who says Catholicism would fall apart without Purgatory when he unknowingly teaches essentially the same thing. He is truly a butterfly pinned to the wall.

 

[jckstraw72]

hahaha that is glorious!

but wait -- he didnt say anything about a second chance -- what are you talking about?!

 

[tadoflamb]

Amazing.

 

[actionsub]

Listening to Johnny Mac IS purgatory!

 

[simonthezealot]

Come on polo that's a gross misrepresentation of his sermon you should put down the RCC presupposition next time you listen, this sermon clearly spells out this fact, that has NOTHING to do with a purgatory.
The moment we die our soul is instantly perfected, because it is no longer attached to the sin incarcerated in our flesh.

 

[laconicstudent]

Come on polo that's a gross misrepresentation of his sermon you should put down the RCC presupposition next time you listen, this sermon clearly spells out this fact, that has NOTHING to do with a purgatory.
The moment we die our soul is instantly perfected, because it is no longer attached to the sin incarcerated in our flesh.

So basically: Purgatory with a slight difference.

 

[simonthezealot]

So basically: Purgatory with a slight difference.

How do you mean?

 

[MrPolo]

Come on polo that's a gross misrepresentation of his sermon you should put down the RCC presupposition next time you listen, this sermon clearly spells out this fact, that has NOTHING to do with a purgatory.

I provided the MP3 link for anyone to listen for themselves. It's only like 20 minutes. I do not believe I have misrepresented him at all.

As to his comment about it being "instantaneous," that is totally compatible with Catholic teaching. Even Pope Benedict XVI said we cannot try to quantify a "duration" of Purgatory, so whether it be "instant" in earthly terms or some other sequential duration is not known for certain.

I heard nothing MacArthur said this morning that was incompatible with the Catholic doctrine of Purgatory, but I did hear much that harmonized with it! Anyway, shouldn't my "RCC bias" make me prone to disagree with him?

 

[MamaZ]

I take it that John MacArthur is not one of your favorites Polo? Why then do you listen to him at all?

 

[cyberlizard]

Come on polo that's a gross misrepresentation of his sermon you should put down the RCC presupposition next time you listen, this sermon clearly spells out this fact, that has NOTHING to do with a purgatory.
The moment we die our soul is instantly perfected, because it is no longer attached to the sin incarcerated in our flesh.

no matter which way I read this it simply sounds like gnosticism... the idea of the soul representing some undiminished divine spark and the flesh being evil or at odds with what the soul is. If not gnosticism then at the very least neo-platonism.

The body acts at the behest of the soul, the flesh cannot be blamed for sin. The blame lays solely in the soul of man (or woman).


Steve

 

[Dark_Lite]

How do you mean?

Purgatory except instantaneous.

 

[MrPolo]

I take it that John MacArthur is not one of your favorites Polo? Why then do you listen to him at all?

I'm sometimes fascinated by the man even if his theology is often a trainwreck.

 

[DD2008]

Anyone hear his sermon this morning? It's appropriately titled "What we will be like." If I had just read a transcript, I probably would have assumed it was a sermon from a Catholic priest. He went on about how we've received Christ, but it's the "first fruits" and we still have sin to deal with, and eventually we'll be perfect in heaven with no sinful blemishes. I kid you not. His whole bent was that we must be detached from sin completely to get into heaven, and he even cited Revelation 21:27 to boot!!! It's not the first time he taught this.

Here is the MP3 from this morning (the link will last for a couple weeks.)

Now, mind you there is no small irony that this is the same guy who says Catholicism would fall apart without Purgatory when he unknowingly teaches essentially the same thing. He is truly a butterfly pinned to the wall.

He isn't talking about a stay in an imaginary place called purgatory but the sacntifying work of the Holy Spirit that happens fully to Christians before they are in heaven.

 

[Dark_Lite]

the sacntifying work of the Holy Spirit that happens fully to Christians before they are in heaven.

Sounds like purgatory to me. Purgatory doesn't have to be a place you know.

 

[LiturgyInDMinor]

Interesting turn of events here.

 

[DD2008]

Sounds like purgatory to me. Purgatory doesn't have to be a place you know.

At death when a christian sheds the flesh he is immediately sanctified and with Christ. When he puts the flesh back on at the ressurection he is finally glorified.

Purgatory is an imaginary place that Roman Catholics made up. They created indulgences that people either earn or have bought to shorten their time there, they even explain that certain indulgences will take off a certain amout of time....this is totally different that the biblical view of christian sanctification.

 

[Dark_Lite]

At death when a christian sheds the flesh he is immediately sanctified and with Christ. When he puts the flesh back on at the ressurection he is finally glorified.

So, purgatory except instantaneous.

 

[LiturgyInDMinor]

Purgatory is an imaginary place that Roman Catholics made up. They created indulgences that people either earn or have bought to shorten their time there, they even explain that certain indulgences will take off a certain amout of time....this is totally different that the biblical view of christian sanctification.

When I was a Roman Catholic I was always told that Purgatory is not a place but a state of being.
And yes the entire indulgence thing got totally out of control.
Just my 2 cents.

 

[simonthezealot]

Sounds like purgatory to me. Purgatory doesn't have to be a place you know.

Sure it does according to catholic doctrine indulgences can be applied to souls DETAINED in purgatory.

 

[Dark_Lite]

Sure it does according to catholic doctrine indulgences can be applied to souls DETAINED in purgatory.

Spe Salvi - Encyclical Letter of His Holiness Benedict XVI on Christian Hope

Read that. Particularly around the 40s.