John Calvin murdered?

[RobertZ]

I was reading a bit into the history of John Calvin and found information claiming that he murdered people and bragged about it? Okay what in the world is going on here?

 

[student ad x]

...... why don't you give us a link to what your reading so we'll all be on the same page.

 

[RobertZ]

...... why don't you give us a link to what your reading so we'll all be on the same page in this type of discussion.

Sorry, no problem I will link it to you in a sec.

 

[RobertZ]

The Murder of Michael Servetus

http://www.sullivan-county.com/id2/servetus.htm

 

[student ad x]

Brother, here's a link to a discussion about Servetus from CF past I cannot express things any better than Cajun Huguenot and Dr.Steve did in this discussion on the issue. From all sides, the thread is quite interesting.

It is a good rule, after reading a new book, never to allow yourself another new one till you have read an old one in between. If that is too much for you, you should at least read one old one to every three new ones............. Every age has its own outlook. It is specially good at seeing certain truths and specially liable to make certain mistakes. We all, therefore, need the books that will correct the characteristic mistakes of our own period. And that means the old books.

 

[RobertZ]

Brother, here's a link to a discussion about Servetus from CF past I cannot express things any better than Cajun Huguenot and Dr.Steve did in this discussion on the issue. From all sides, the thread is quite interesting.

Thank you, I will most certainly have a good look at what they are saying.

 

[Communion]

Thank you, I will most certainly have a good look at what they are saying.

Be advised there are some that believe Calvin could do no wrong and probably should be listed among the Apostles

 

[aniello]

A friend of mine just saw this thread and called, he won't ever sign up or make his own comments here so he bugs me to. He knows I have been leaning quite toward Calvinist beliefs. So he says: "Ani, go google 'Pope of Geneva'. ". I gather that he has turned up something negative, or so he thinks, that's my guess. I would rather not.

Has anybody a clue to what he is referring to? Not to criticize him but his church is a sort of user-friendly comfort zone country club thing IMO.

 

[mlqurgw]

It is the tactic used when one can't actually disprove or refute the argument of another. It is called a red herring. It is a diversion to take the focus off what is truth in order to paint the truth in a bad light. What John Calvin did or din't do has absolutely no bearing on whether what he taught was truth or not. To say that what he taught must be untrue because he may have done some things that we might not approve of is intellectually dishonest and decietful at the very least.

 

[Phileoeklogos]

In certain circles, lies, half truths and total fabrication are acceptable as long as they paint calvinism in a bad light, attacking John Calvin is just one of the methods used. Get your history from real historians and not internet hacks.

 

[faceofbear]

It's not about what Calvin says, but what the Bible says. Whether Calvin murdered or not has no bearing on what the Bible says. It should cause us to question Calvin's teachings, according to 1 John, but it doesn't mean that we completely rule out everything he said either. E.G. If a false teacher (I'm not making an accusation, just an example) teaches that Jesus Christ was God incarnate, but then goes kidnaps, rapes, and murders someone, then is prideful of what they've done, we do not say, "Well, then Jesus wasn't God incarnate because so-and-so taught it and was a hypocrite."

I believe it was Rich Mullins who said: "God spoke to Balam through his ass, and God has been speaking through asses ever since."

Should it cause us to question what we believe? Yes. Should it cause us to be concerned about taking everything Calvin says as the Word of God? Yes. Should we then deny everything Calvin taught? No.

 

[mlqurgw]

In certain circles, lies, half truths and total fabrication are acceptable as long as they paint calvinism in a bad light, attacking John Calvin is just one of the methods used. Get your history from real historians and not internet hacks.

Those who use such tactics are called politicians.

 

[mlqurgw]

It's not about what Calvin says, but what the Bible says. Whether Calvin murdered or not has no bearing on what the Bible says. It should cause us to question Calvin's teachings, according to 1 John, but it doesn't mean that we completely rule out everything he said either. E.G. If a false teacher (I'm not making an accusation, just an example) teaches that Jesus Christ was God incarnate, but then goes kidnaps, rapes, and murders someone, then is prideful of what they've done, we do not say, "Well, then Jesus wasn't God incarnate because so-and-so taught it and was a hypocrite."

I believe it was Rich Mullins who said: "God spoke to Balam through his ass, and God has been speaking through asses ever since."

Should it cause us to question what we believe? Yes. Should it cause us to be concerned about taking everything Calvin says as the Word of God? Yes. Should we then deny everything Calvin taught? No.

Just the parts that rob us of our own sovereignty.

 

[Communion]

He's the same as Luther and Zwingli and the Catholic Popes ~ they considered us (baptists, though back then we would be classified as anabaptists) as heretics since we practiced believer's baptism. Why would I read from someone that thinks we're heretics? Works fine for the Presbyterians and Lutherans and Reformed but then we aren't them...or maybe we are.

 

[JM]

Anabaptists and Baptists are not the same.

 

[Communion]

Anabaptists and Baptists are not the same.

Yeah, yeah they are for this discussion. Not all anabaptists were pacifist amish/meenonite types. But they were amazingly similar, especially regarding baptism and church polity.

 

[mlqurgw]

He's the same as Luther and Zwingli and the Catholic Popes ~ they considered us (baptists, though back then we would be classified as anabaptists) as heretics since we practiced believer's baptism. Why would I read from someone that thinks we're heretics? Works fine for the Presbyterians and Lutherans and Reformed but then we aren't them...or maybe we are.

Because he has some very profound things to say according to the Spirit and light given him? I am no great fan of John Calnvin but I do have and do read his works. Just like men such as ( pick your favorite Arminian author) he has some good and some bad but we take the meat and spit out the bones.

 

[Communion]

Because he has some very profound things to say according to the Spirit and light given him? I am no great fan of John Calnvin but I do have and do read his works. Just like men such as ( pick your favorite Arminian author) he has some good and some bad but we take the meat and spit out the bones.

Some of those bones get caught in my throat..think I'll select another dish.

It's kind of tough being baptist in that we've only technically been around for what..300 years? Maybe not a lot of depth historically to work with.

 

[mlqurgw]

Some of those bones get caught in my throat..think I'll select another dish.

It's kind of tough being baptist in that we've only technically been around for what..300 years? Maybe not a lot of depth historically to work with.

Then you perhaps miss a good meal because you are too picky.

I don't happen to hold to the English Separaist theory of Baptist history. I hold to the spiritual kinship view. We have been around much longer than 300 years.

 

[faceofbear]

It's kind of tough being baptist in that we've only technically been around for what..300 years? Maybe not a lot of depth historically to work with.

What about John the Baptist? He was around in Jesus' days. I'd say we have a head start compared to all the other Christians considering Jesus said no one born of women is greater than John. Sooo... scratch all others from the list (save Jesus).