John 8:34

[holyrokker]

John 8:34 Jesus replied, "I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave to sin."

This seems to contradict the notion that we are born sinner.

Romans 6:16 Don't you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?

James 1:14-15 But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death.

This also seems to contradict the notion.

 

[SK'sFriend]

I'm not sure exactly how you see these passages as being contradictory to the doctrine of original sin. Could you describe a little further in detail why these passages lead you to such a conclusion?

 

[holyrokker]

Jesus says that everyone who sins is a slave to sin.

Slavery is the result of sin.

Being born sinful means the sin is the result of being born into slavery to sin.

James 1:14-15 shows us that sin is the result of temptation.

Being born sinful says that sin is the result of being born sinful.

Romans 6:16 tells us that we become slaves to sin by yielding to its power.

Being born sinful tells us that we are born slaves to a sinful nature.

 

[ittarter]

John 8:34 Jesus replied, "I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave to sin."

The servant-master relationship is used as an analogy here, perhaps to suggest that you cannot master sin and use it to serve yourself -- whenever you sin you are in fact furthering evil powers in the world. Jesus promises the Jews that the truth will set them free -- in other words, by recognizing Jesus as the word of God they will be enabled to truly live for God and further HIS purposes in the world.

This seems to contradict the notion that we are born sinner.

First, these passages don't communicate that people are born into sin. Second, there is no contradiction anyway. Far from it -- these passages, while written by different authors from different generations of early Christianity, overlap nicely.

In sum:
John -- "People who sin, unwittingly further the powers of evil in the world."
Paul -- "Whatever power you serve -- whether good or evil -- you will ultimately be consumed by the principle behind it -- whether life or death."
James -- "Your evil desires incite you to sin, and if you continue to sin [and thus serve the power of evil] you will eventually be consumed by the principle behind it, that is, death."

Now I'm hardly opposed to true tension, paradox and even contradiction in the Bible, but the example you've suggested better demonstrates the theological continuity of the New Testament.

 

[MrPolo]

Jesus says that everyone who sins is a slave to sin.

Slavery is the result of sin.

I think John 8:34 suggests that sinning causes not only the consequence of the sin itself, but the tendency to repeat the sin or addiction to the sin. In other words, the more you sin the more you want to. This can be described as slavery to the sin.

Being born sinful says that sin is the result of being born sinful.

I didn't see this in the verses you posted.

 

[elahopes]

This whole thing is an ongoing debate where ever I go....SIN IS a biiiiig topic! AND everyone has their own bent. First I kinda think I understand what you are trying to say (maybe?...anyway, here is my bent ~

#1 We were originally created and born INTO a world where we had NO reason to sin AND had all the Spiritual help needed to to be within God's realm and will.

#2 Then, after the Fall, we were born INTO sin...that is, a fallen, sinful world. Fallen from a totally relationship-oriented, God-surrounded world where the Spiritual is natural...to a world where the Spiritual is not natural, and God is present and loves all - BUT is only personally present for those who desire Him.

#3 We are born WITH the tendency to sin, because we were given a free will (which lead to being without the Spirit) in the garden...and therefore no one leaves this mortal coil without exersizing that free will and missing the mark.

#4 Which to me means that we are not born sinners in the sense that when we are newborns or infants that we can make conscience choices to miss the mark.

#5 However, when we grow...and some people say when they think the age of consent is...we begin making choices and will inevitably miss the mark....because the human will without the Spirit is strong.

#6 However, in John 3:16 and Gal. 5:16-26 it speaks about how IF we choose to live in that Spiritual realm again, THEN we can personally have the ability to live and thrive Spiritually and physically with God again.

 

[holyrokker]

This whole thing is an ongoing debate where ever I go....SIN IS a biiiiig topic! AND everyone has their own bent. First I kinda think I understand what you are trying to say (maybe?...anyway, here is my bent ~

#1 We were originally created and born INTO a world where we had NO reason to sin AND had all the Spiritual help needed to to be within God's realm and will.

#2 Then, after the Fall, I think that we were born INTO sin...that is, a fallen, sinful world. Fallen from a totally relationship-oriented, God-surrounded world where the Spiritual is natural...to a world where the Spiritual is not natural, and God is present and loves all - BUT is only personally there for those who desire Him.

#3 We are born WITH the tendency to sin, because we were given a free will, which lead to being without the Spirit, in the garden, and therefore no one leaves this mortal coil without exersizing that free will and missing the mark.

#4 Which to me means that we are not born sinners in the sense that when we are newborns or infants that we can make conscience choices to miss the mark.

#5 However, when we grow...and some people say when they think the age of consent is...we begin making choices and will inevitably miss the mark....because the human will without the Spirit is strong.

#6 However, in John 3:16 and Gal. 5:16-26 it speaks about how IF we choose to live in that Spiritual realm again, THEN we can personally have the ability to live and thrive Spiritually and physically with God again.

This seems both reasonable and Biblical.

Thanks

 

[christian1488]

Read all John 8.
John 8:33:They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
Who asked this???
v 13 ''The Pharisees'' v 22 ''the Jews'' v 3 ''scribes and Pharisees''

NO JEW COULD SAY THEY WERE NEVER A SLAVE!
As Israel had been in slavery/bondage many times,remember Egypt,how Moses led them out?

The contradiction is with the Jews saying they were never in bondage to any man!!!!!!

Jews in Greek concordance is ''2453. Ioudaios ee-oo-dah'-yos from 2448 (in the sense of 2455 as a country); Judaean, i.e. belonging to Jehudah:--Jew(-ess), of Judaea.