john 8:24

[SH89]

Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.” (john 8:24)


Quick questions:

When Jesus said,". . . if you do not believe that I am He. . ." is he essentially saying, "If you do not believe that I am God" in the Jewish context and language of John 8:24?

Is the use of the "I am" here the same as in exodus 3:14 and john 8:58?

 

[SH89]

bump

 

[Trench777]

Well, in context:

John 8:25- "Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning."

So, the "I am He" in 8:24 is the same as He always claimed (I.E. The Son of God, The Messiah, The Annointed One)

T777

 

[Nazaroo]

I think primarily the focus of Jesus confrontation with the Judeans was His identity as the actual expected coming Messiah, the Anointed One, the chosen King appointed by the Lord God of Israel.

All of Jesus' other traits, His Godhead, His Sonship, these are part of the package, but not the exact focus of this verse, though they are implied.

 

[GeorgeTwo]

Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.” (john 8:24)


Quick questions:

When Jesus said,". . . if you do not believe that I am He. . ." is he essentially saying, "If you do not believe that I am God" in the Jewish context and language of John 8:24?

Is the use of the "I am" here the same as in exodus 3:14 and john 8:58?

The word "he" is not in the text. It was added to help with the meaning.

I think the Greek is difficult, although I don't know Greek. LOL

But someone who does said:

"ειπον ουν υμιν οτι αποθανεισθε εν ταις αμαρτιαις υμων εαv γαρ μη πιστευσητε εγω ειμι, αποθανεισθε εν ταις αμαρτιαις

Translation:

Therefore I told you that you will die in your sins, for unless you would believe that I AM, you will die in your sins.

Throughout the gospel of John there are many "I am" sayings, some with modifiers (I am the way, 14:6) and some without (here). The I AM sayings always give the reader an insight into who Jesus is (John's Gospel has as its main theme the identity of Jesus). The I AM sayings that are not modified are claims to divinity, a la Exodus.

The other issue is, of course, what could it possibly mean if it does not refer to the divinity of Christ?

Nothing. There is no other really plausible explanation."

Jesus phrased this verse in such a way that His meaning is not clear. In John 8:58, not long after verse 24, He left us no doubt He was claiming deity.

 

[Heterodoxus]

Quick questions:

When Jesus said,". . . if you do not believe that I am He. . ." is he essentially saying, If you do not believe that I am God ....?

That's probably how one who subscribes to the doctrine of the Trinity might read it. However, the Greek reads: εαν γαρ μη πιστευσηται οτι εγω ειμι αποθανισθαι (roughly: for unless you believe that I am you will die (the Greek word for "he" doesn't appear in the Greek text of the 3rd century P66 or early 4th century P75, or in the later and pro-Catholic Codex Sinaiticus or Codex Vaticanus. Neither should it appear in English translations. Instead, Jesus is saying something more like "if you don't believe that I am who I say I am [i.e., the one to whom the Father bears witness (8:18)], you will die".

Is the use of the "I am" here the same as in exodus 3:14 and john 8:58?

Yes, and no, depending on whom you ask. In the former, the words God supposedly said to Moses are more like "I EXIST BECAUSE I EXIST". The latter is much more complicated to explain, but is likely a mysticism (such philosophies were very popular in Greece and Rome even during Jesus' time) implying that Jesus' spirit was already old when Abraham's spirit was created.

Be that as it might or might not be, orthodox Christians who believe that Jesus = God insist that, by quoting the words of Jehovah to Moses in Exodus 3:14, Jesus equated himself to God in John 8:58. Nevertheless, not all Christians are orthodox or believe that.