John 7:65

[slaptotheface]

John 7:65 He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.”

In my quest through the bible I came across this verse. Currently I am trying to spread the word of God among my friends, still young, but just trying plant the seed.

This verse is intriguing to me because I've always been on the firm belief that absolutely anyone can come to Christ. But I guess it's only If God calls them? Should I continue to spread the word and pray for my friends to come to Jesus or has the work already been done? If so, what's next? Should I invite them to church so that If indeed they have been called they will go?

 

[heron]

This verse is intriguing to me because the chapter only goes up to 53 in some versions. (-;

I think Jesus' point was humility. The Holy Spirit works in each of us to prepare us to hear and understand the message. We think we have made the decision ourselves, but a lot of prep went into it.

Like a famous singer not acknowledging their songwriter, band, manager, and all the people that went into the show... that ends up with one name on the billboard.

Some people teach a predestinated selection, but very few -- there are also verses saying "God is no willing that any should perish." And many more showing that salvation is offered to all who choose to receive it.

When you pray for your friends, you help God pave the way for them to understand. So yes, pray for them and invite them. If they say no, then at least they will know that you are available to take them when they're more ready to go.

Reasoning and faith take time.

 

[slaptotheface]

Thank you and God bless you! That might be exactly what I needed to hear.

 

[Johnnz]

That was a sensible post. God is always at work drawing people to Himself. Many neither recognise nor wish to hear his voice, but they are not excluded from knowing their Father by his pre-determined intentions for some people.

John
NZ

 

[singpeace]

John 7:65 He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.”

In my quest through the bible I came across this verse. Currently I am trying to spread the word of God among my friends, still young, but just trying plant the seed.

This verse is intriguing to me because I've always been on the firm belief that absolutely anyone can come to Christ. But I guess it's only If God calls them? Should I continue to spread the word and pray for my friends to come to Jesus or has the work already been done? If so, what's next? Should I invite them to church so that If indeed they have been called they will go?

slaptotheface,

You are the first person to ever completely stump me. I have just left a request with a bunch of Theologians and Seminary Scholars on another forum site, asking them to clear this up for us.

I've looked at the Greek, the concordances, everywhere for some kind logic and it just isn't clicking for me. As soon as I have their answer, I'll be happy to post it for you here.

God bless you.

 

[LWB]

We witness our faith to others, but that doesn't mean they can receive the good news.

The parable of the sower explains that some may even accept the Gospel with joy, but later find it too difficult.

When faced with such hard concepts, people become concerned about their salvation. It doesn't seem fair that God chooses some and not others.

I really don't think this is about salvation. Belief in Jesus will secure one grace, but there is much more than mere survival!

To truly come to Jesus, you can't be motivated by self concern. It is love for the Lord, and the desire to die to self and live for Him! I think God chooses a few now for this delight because He can hardly wait until all is resolved at the end of human history.

 

[singpeace]

I meant to tell you earlier that you have the wrong scripture numbers. The scripture you are quoting is John 6:65.

I had interpreted the scripture wrong at first. I thought what Christ was saying was that God gives faith to only some people; like chosen people, and that He intentionally keeps faith from the others who will be those that perish without Christ.

My Theologian pals told me that what the verse is really saying is God gives faith to all who come to repentance. The person must first repent, and instantly, God's Spirit brings the gift of faith. Those who perish in the end without God never receive faith because they never repent.

 

[Brother Chris]

John 7:65 He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.”

In my quest through the bible I came across this verse. Currently I am trying to spread the word of God among my friends, still young, but just trying plant the seed.

This verse is intriguing to me because I've always been on the firm belief that absolutely anyone can come to Christ. But I guess it's only If God calls them? Should I continue to spread the word and pray for my friends to come to Jesus or has the work already been done? If so, what's next? Should I invite them to church so that If indeed they have been called they will go?

First off, everyone needs to understand, God gets all the glory in the salvation of sinners, from justification to glorification. No one will boast, no one will get credit for anything. What Jesus said in that verse is very clear. No one can come to Christ unless it is the Spirit of God drawing them to Christ. Why can't people come on their own? Because they are spiritually dead and enslaved to sin. They can not come to Christ because they will not come to Christ. God has to give them spiritual life, God has to break the power of sin, God has to grant repentance and draw them to His Son. Salvation is a supernatural work of God, not a human decision.
Notice, many of His disciples walked away after He said this verse, and they walked with Him no more. Why? Because they didn't come to Christ on His terms. Christ said, you must be willing to deny yourself, take up a cross and follow Him. You must be willing to abandon your sin, the world and self (Luke 9:23-25). If you come to Him and you do not hate your own father, mother, sister, brother, wife, children, even your own life, you can not be His disciple (Luke 14:26). This shatters the easy believe-ism of "just believe, come as you are and stay as you are" mentality. Is Jesus teaching us to hate our families? No. In a nutshell, Jesus is teaching that whatever or whoever is keeping you from coming to know Him as your Lord and Savior, you must be willing to give it up. Whatever it is you are holding onto or trusting in, Jesus said you must be willing to let it go. Come to Him with open and empty hands. Those disciples who walked away from Him only stuck around to watch the miracles, they were not interested in being freed from the penalty and power of sin, they felt they didn't need that. Those who come to Christ to be saved, no matter the cost, it is those that are being drawn by the Father.
But like I said, only God gets the glory for salvation, therefore it is by His own sovereign choice on who He will draw to His Son. It is a verse that supports the doctrine of election. God would be fair and just to send everyone to hell. It is only by His grace and mercy that He saves some, but not all.

 

[SoldierOfSoul]

.

 

[Johnnz]

.... therefore it is by His own sovereign choice on who He will draw to His Son. It is a verse that supports the doctrine of election. God would be fair and just to send everyone to hell. It is only by His grace and mercy that He saves some, but not all.

Far from it. Election is a preconception you bring onto that verse.

John
NZ

 

[heron]

God gets all the glory in the salvation of sinners, from justification to glorification. No one will boast, no one will get credit for anything...Christ said, you must be willing to deny yourself, take up a cross and follow Him. You must be willing to abandon your sin, the world and self

The other thing that ties in with this -- each day we tend to resist help, forget to lean on God for things, feel so undeserving or obligated to prove that we strive to do things on our own.

Even after we are saved, God's help is sometimes our second choice. By nature we feel like we need to prove our worth on our own. God's system of worth is family-based.

 

[Maremma]

I came across this scripture at the same time I was praying so hard for my son to get saved. There are several others that made me understand that indeed NO ONE would be saved if God didn't intervene. We are all born into sin. We are all born owned by satan.Sons and daughter of the evil one. We have scales over our eyes so that we cannot see. Our hearts are hardened and we are spiritually dead. I will repeat that. We are born into this world spiritually dead.There are far more implications to this fact than most understand or realize.
God says it is not His will that ANY should perish but that ALL would come to repentance and have everlasting life. If there were no choice in the matter that would make God a liar. But there are spiritual laws at work that we need God's help to understand.
God knows us before we are even born. He knows who will and who won't accept Him. It isn't so much God's "election" just willy nilly. He gave us all the choice. Because we are born here spiritually dead we are incapable/unable of recognizing Him all by ourselves. Satan is the god of this world. Although God created it we literally gave it to satan by sinning. Because of this if God would not directly call us we would be unable/incapable of seeking Him.
We as Christians are to be praying for our enemies, praying for our family, praying for our friends.Pretty much praying for everyone. We are to plant seeds and God makes them grow. We need to be going about our Fathers work and pray without ceasing. We need to be speaking God word out loud and in our prayers because God said
Isaiah 55:11 So is my word that goes out from my mouth: It will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I desire and achieve the purpose for which I sent it. Proverbs 18:21 The tongue has the power of life and death, those who love it will eat it's fruit. We are warned not to swear by anything. We are told to bless and not curse.
There are spiritual laws at work all around us that both God and satan follow. Just as God spoke everything into existence, we are to carry on His work by continuing to speak life into this dark world. God warns us about the tongue and that we must learn to control it and it is because of how powerful it is.
That is another act of faith. We plant seeds to everyone we know about God and salvation and we pray for the scales to be removed, their hearts softened and that God call them to Himself. We are not excused from our work because we don't know who will and won't be saved.
I have seen these scriptures make people very "lazy" about even praying for anyone to be saved and it is very scary and heartbreaking. There are not enough of us as it is that stand in the gap for others to pray for their salvation. Satan has so many tricks up his sleeve, using scriptures to stop God's work is just one of his many deceptions.

 

[heron]

I have seen these scriptures make people very "lazy" about even praying for anyone to be saved and it is very scary and heartbreaking...
We as Christians are to be praying for our enemies, praying for our family, praying for our friends.Pretty much praying for everyone. We are to plant seeds and God makes them grow.
There are spiritual laws at work all around us that both God and satan follow. Just as God spoke everything into existence, we are to carry on His work by continuing to speak life into this dark world.

You are very inspiring.

I wanted to add a verse -- We love Him because He first loved us.
1 John 4:19

 

[heron]

An interesting part of the translation, the Greek word "Father" includes...

metaph.

1. the originator and transmitter of anything
   1. the authors of a family or society of persons animated by the same spirit as himself
   2. one who has infused his own spirit into others, who actuates and governs their minds

(Similar to "Father of Industry" or "Forefathers")

 

[Peripatetic]

The debate about election vs. free often points to this passage. No matter how hard either side argues, it does not overtly support either side. What it does say is that nobody can get themselves into Heaven - God has to enable us. What it doesn't say is whether God enables everyone (requiring them to accept this invitation to Grace using free will - the Arminian view), or enables only some (the elect are compelled with irresistible grace while the reprobate cannot enter Heaven no matter what - the Calvinism view), or somewhere in between.

I tend to believe this:

I think Jesus' point was humility.

We all need the help of God in all three persons: God's grace, Jesus' sacrifice on the cross, and Holy Spirit's sanctification. The extent of our free will is not knowable, nor does it matter too much. If we have more control, we should strive to the finish line as Paul said. If we have no control other than grasping the life preserver that God throws down to us, then we should take it and hang on. If we have no control whatsoever, there is no harm in acting as if we do.

 

[Brother Chris]

Far from it. Election is a preconception you bring onto that verse.

John
NZ

Election is clearly taught in scripture. It may be difficult to accept it or understand it, but that doesn't make it false. Jesus said, "You did not choose Me. I chose you."

 

[Johnnz]

He did, referring specifically to his disciples.

John
NZ

 

[znr]

God's system of worth is family-based.

Can you explain that?