John 6:39-40

[Bob_1000]

I didn't want to derail the thread this comes from so I started this one.

If you are not against dictionaries, then how is that different than say… using a Modern Translation to gain a defined meaning and understanding that says the same thing in the KJB (But more clearer)?

Dictionaries are sometimes written by this secular world. So the source should even be worse. Do you think there are sometimes bad definitions that could leaven you in dictionaries as a result of this? You know… worldly definitions that could leaven you when you check out a dictionary?

See, that’s why what you propose is ridiculous. I know the corrupt things in the Modern Translations, and I am not even remotely interested in siding with them over what the KJB says. I tremble at the idea of changing what the KJB says. So it’s not even a possibility. I place them side by side next to each other and I am able to see where they line up and where they don’t line up. It’s not complicated and neither am I tempted to side with them over what the KJB says. It’s very important that I honor the KJB with every word and letter.



You act like I am a new Christian. I am not. I am in strong favor of looking at the context, and looking at the whole counsel of God’s Word (cross references).

I wasn't insinuating that you were a new Christian and I apologize for not making it clear. What I was saying is that I recommend using the bible as it's own dictionary for everyone. It's a pleasure to discuss scripture with someone who actually believes the bible for what it says.

Many of the odd beliefs I run into by Christians are the kind of beliefs that ignore the whole counsel of God’s Word while they focus a laser beam on a particular verse with a wrong interpretation.

There's nothing wrong with extreme focus on a particular verse, not one verse in the bible contradicts another.

Question #1: What is the “it” being raise in John 6:39?
Question #2: And who is the “him” being raised in John 6:40?

Answer #1:

Well, first, we have to remember that while Jesus will resurrect physically all faithful believers both Jews and Gentiles, we have to understand that Jesus was primarily addressing Jews as his audience in the gospels. For Jesus said He was only sent to the lost house of the tribe of Israel when the Canaanite woman came unto him begging for Jesus to help her (See: Matthew 15:21-28). Second, so what is the “it” that is to be raised in John 6:39? It would be the bones in the valley of the dry bones mentioned in Ezekiel 37:1-14.

Ezekiel 37:1-14 KJV

[1] “The hand of the Lord was upon me, and carried me out in the spirit of the Lord, and set me down in the midst of the valley which was full of bones,
[2] And caused me to pass by them round about: and, behold, there were very many in the open valley; and, lo, they were very dry.
[3] And he said unto me, Son of man, can these bones live? And I answered, O Lord God, thou knowest.
[4] Again he said unto me, Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of the Lord.
[5] Thus saith the Lord God unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live:
[6] And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the Lord.
[7] So I prophesied as I was commanded: and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold a shaking, and the bones came together, bone to his bone.
[8] And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but there was no breath in them.
[9] Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord God ; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live.
[10] So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army.
[11] Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.
[12] Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God ; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.
[13] And ye shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,
[14] And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the Lord have spoken it, and performed it, saith the Lord.”​

For the Jews knew this. For… “Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.” (John 11:24).

I'm not sure but I think you're saying that "it" is the Old Testament believers and if so, that is exactly right but that's not why the Holy Spirit put the word "it" there in my opinion. "It" is a SINGULAR pronoun that points to ONE specific thing. Granted, that one thing could be made up of multiple things and be collectively known as that one thing. In other words there is a singular bible word that represents the Old Testament believers and that's what "it" is pointing us to. The only one that I know of is the tabernacle of David and I would be glad to explain why the tabernacle of David is the Old Testament body of Christ sometime if you want.

Answer #2:

John 6:40 says,
“And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.”

So who is the “him” being raised up?
It’s obvious by the context of the very verse itself.

“…every one which (who) seeth (sees) the Son, and believeth (believes) on him,”

I don't know if you noticed this or not but the context of both verses is about when Jesus was present on the earth. There are two groups:
1) Those that had not seen the Son while he was on the earth
2) Those that saw the Son while he was on this earth.

Verse 39 is the group that had never seen the Son. These are the dead Old Testament believers, aka the dead in Christ. These believers died in their sins because Christ had not paid for their sins yet. When Jesus paid for their sins on the cross, they were raised to eternal life on the LAST DAY Jesus was in the heart of the earth.

Verse 40 is the group that were alive with Christ and they believed on him. They were also RAISED to eternal life on the LAST DAY Jesus was in the heart of the earth.

Preterism is a huge error, and it’s clearly obvious from Scripture that none of things in Revelation have happened yet. Have you heard about demons coming up out of the ground in history? How about 1/4 of the world being killed? Also, the Jewish temple wall still stands. Jesus said in the Olivet discourse the following words, “There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.” (Matthew 24:2). Jesus said “raise it up again at the last day.” (John 6:39). The last day has not happened yet because this sinful Earth is still here.

I agree that Preterism as most Preterist believe is a huge error. I do believe that everything has been fulfilled but not in any way like the Preterist view teaches.

 

[Clare73]

V.39 - I shall lose none of it (the group the Father has given me) and will raise it (the group the Father has given me) in the last day (Second Coming).

V.40 - I will raise up him (who sees the Son, believes in him and has eternal life) at the last day (Second Coming).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I didn't want to derail the thread this comes from so I started this one.

Wise choice, and thank you for recognizing so as to post here instead.
Sometimes I forget to start another thread so as not to derail a thread.

I wasn't insinuating that you were a new Christian and I apologize for not making it clear.

It’s all good, brother.

What I was saying is that I recommend using the bible as it's own dictionary for everyone. It's a pleasure to discuss scripture with someone who actually believes the bible for what it says.

Thank you. May the Lord’s blessings be upon you today.
In fact, I was just telling my wife today of the importance of how we must trust the King James Bible as our final Word of authority.

I'm not sure but I think you're saying that "it" is the Old Testament believers and if so, that is exactly right but that's not why the Holy Spirit put the word "it" there in my opinion. "It" is a SINGULAR pronoun that points to ONE specific thing. Granted, that one thing could be made up of multiple things and be collectively known as that one thing. In other words there is a singular bible word that represents the Old Testament believers and that's what "it" is pointing us to. The only one that I know of is the tabernacle of David and I would be glad to explain why the tabernacle of David is the Old Testament body of Christ sometime if you want.

Sure, I would be open to hearing it.
Just know I may not accept it.
I would have to compare Scripture with Scripture to see if it checks out.

I don't know if you noticed this or not but the context of both verses is about when Jesus was present on the earth. There are two groups:
1) Those that had not seen the Son while he was on the earth
2) Those that saw the Son while he was on this earth.

Verse 39 is the group that had never seen the Son. These are the dead Old Testament believers, aka the dead in Christ. These believers died in their sins because Christ had not paid for their sins yet. When Jesus paid for their sins on the cross, they were raised to eternal life on the LAST DAY Jesus was in the heart of the earth.

Verse 40 is the group that were alive with Christ and they believed on him. They were also RAISED to eternal life on the LAST DAY Jesus was in the heart of the earth.

I just read the context, and I do not see anything about how verse 39 is referring to the OT saint who has died (without seeing the Son). Is there another verse somewhere else that points to this maybe?

I agree that Preterism as most Preterist believe is a huge error. I do believe that everything has been fulfilled but not in any way like the Preterist view teaches.

I am glad. You worried me there for a moment because you implied the Futurist view was not true by what you said before.

Anyways, may the Lord’s good ways be upon you.