John 3:3-5

[AVBunyan]

I see a lot of people seem to have to refer to some Greek to support their views and that is fine, I guess. When you say "the Greek text actually says," I get cofused for I do not understand Greek nor feel inclined to learn it at this time for I have enough trouble with 5th grade English. Plus what little I do understand is that one of the arguments going around today is which Greek text for there appears to be a bunch and they all read differently.

The constant referencing to the Greek didn't seem to help me see your view, sorry - not your fault I just have no way of checking you out on it. Since this is not a thread on the Greek and Hebrew vs. the 1611AV then I guess we are at a stalmate. No big deal. I'll stick with the 1611AV over the "originals" anyday.

I know you are thinking that if I would just learn the Greek then I could get all of those nuggets but I'm afraid I wil just have to "miss out. " I still don't see water baptism in the verse and I still see the doctrine of born again as a future reference to the nation being "born again" in a day at the end of the tribulation.

I do appreciate your view on the matter for you did put some good effort and thought into it and gave me something to think about.

Later and God bless

 

[Philip]

Plus what little I do understand is that one of the arguments going around today is which Greek text for there appears to be a bunch and they all read differently.

The Greek texts disagree in some passages, but not this one.

The constant referencing to the Greek didn't seem to help me see your view, sorry - not your fault I just have no way of checking you out on it. Since this is not a thread on the Greek and Hebrew vs. the 1611AV then I guess we are at a stalmate. No big deal. I'll stick with the 1611AV over the "originals" anyday.

As I pointed out, even the KJV indiciates that John 3:5 should have only one "of" and that the second was added:

John 3:5
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. ​

Look carefully at the text in your Bible. The second of should be in italics.

 

[AVBunyan]

Philip - are you saying then that in order for a person to be justified today one must be baptised - is this what you believe John 3 teaches?

If the water in the verse is not referring to a physical birth then why would Nicodemus asked if he should enter into the womb a second time? Nicodemus thought the Lord was referring to a physical birth. They knew back then that when a bady came out of the womb it was surrounded by water in the mother's womb till delivery.

So, Jesus said, (paraphrase) "You want to enter into the kingdom? There must be a physical birth and then a spiritual birth." By the way I believe that kingdom he is referring to was also the physical kingdom he came to bring in not just the spiritual.

And, if Israel wants to get into the millenial kingdom at the end of the tribulation then they will have to have a spiritual birth as a nation in order for them to get in (Jer. 31:31, 37; Heb. 8:8).

Your preach!