John 3:16

[JeffreyLloyd]

[bible]John 3:16[/bible]

I was driving home from poker today and was listening to the radio, it was some Protestant talk show where they were talking about John 3:16. And they were making the case for OSAS. That they said it was clear that all you needed to do was believe in Jesus and you would be saved.

Well, my little brain started working, and wouldn't a good analogy against this was of thinking be:

If I want to be become a Boy Scout I must believe in the scouts. However, I don't get to be an Eagle Scout just because I believe. I have to join, and do a number of steps to reach the goal of becoming an Eagle Scout.

Okay, now that I typed that out, I don't think it is a very good analogy, can you do any better?

My point is, that belief in Christ means doing what he says. Thus if I believe in Christ and don't join his Church, do I really believe in Christ? If I believe in Christ, and don't follow his teachings, so I really believe in Him?

Am I making any sense, or do I need to go to bed?

 

[TexasCatholic]

I think the follow-through that doesn't seem to be discussed in the OSAS argument is that in order to believe you must also act. You can't say "I believe that Jesus is my savior" and then go live a repugnantly sinful life with absolutely no further thought of God or living life right....

The truth is, Protestsant and Catholic beliefs, though different, are a lot closer than the arguments seem. Arguments, for the sake of arguing, have to be polar opposites, so that's how it often comes off.

-Michael

 

[Skripper]

Belief in Jesus can be said to be synonymous with belief in Him as both Lord and Savior. Belief in Jesus as Lord and not merely as Savior only has certain implications, though. One of which is obedience . . . obedience to Christ through the means by which He implemented. That being, of course, His Church that He established to carry on His mission is His physical absence, in the persons of His Apostles and their successors. However, this means giving up personal authority, something very difficult for do for some. From what I have observed, OSAS theology tends to focus more on the Savior aspect and is, therefore, less focused on the Lord/obedience aspect and, consequentiality less focused on any outside authority, other than the self and the Bible . . . as led by the Holy Spirit, on an individual basis only, of course, as opposed to both individual and corporate levels via the Church and Bible and Holy Spirit. IMO this contributes to, and frequently results in, what can be called the "easy belivism" which you describe.

This frequently manifests itself in the phenomenon of "church shopping." Where the individual hops from church to church, frequently depending on his/her personal opinions to find the "right" church. One that either "agrees" with them or, at the very least, disagrees little enough to where the person feels comfortable. Translated this usually means that the person has decided that they are "right" about some point of doctrine, that "church A" or "Pastor A" is "wrong" and decide to move on to where they find the teachings to be "right," i.e., more in line with the way they see things.

But, have you ever noticed that you never run across anyone that says anything like, "I left thus and such church because they are right and I am wrong and I want to be in a church where they teach and others share my wrong beliefs/opinons." Not likely . . . the idividual is always "right" . . . or at least believes/claims themselves to be.

 

[Rising_Suns]

My point is, that belief in Christ means doing what he says.

Yes, exactly. Love is proven through obedience.

 

[CarolineBlue]

I am Catholic but I believe that there are a lot of people in the world who believe in God yet they live morally corrupt lives.

Look at the movies on the Mafia-they will cry over Religious matters, go to Church and be rather devout in terms of going to Mass and praying but they kill people usually in movies etc...

I believe that when you die and the devil tempts you Jesus is there and He will outstretch his hand to anyone-even the sinful.

It makes me a bit angry at times knowing some are living the life they want to npt thinking of Christ or others and they still get to go to Heaven but...

I think what happens is, that they would be so grateful and ashamed when they finally see Jesus that they want to stay in purgatory I believe that their guilt keeps them there and that they don't see God maybe until after they've "done their time" so to speak.

The site MTEP dot com is a site where you can help get souls out of purgatory by saying the St Gertrude prayer if anyone is interested the MTEP stands for MISSION TO EMPTY PURGATORY.

 

[Michelina]

The words 'faith' and 'believe' refer to an activity that is more than 'intellectual assent'.

Faith and believing involve a relationship with God, i.e love
and obedience. This meaning of 'faith' and 'believe' is clear throughout the NT.

Elsewhere in Romans, Paul says that Love is faith-in-action.

And then there is the equally-inspired Epistle of James that makes no bones about it: faith without works is dead.

 

[Epiphanygirl]

I think the follow-through that doesn't seem to be discussed in the OSAS argument is that in order to believe you must also act. -Michael

Catholics would call this "works"

 

[Michelina]

Catholics would call this "works"

The *w* word. Ooooh.... Is that allowed?

 

[Michelina]

Look at the movies on the Mafia-they will cry over Religious matters, go to Church and be rather devout in terms of going to Mass and praying but they kill people usually in movies etc

Amen to your post, Caroline! But as far as the Mafia goes: they are a bunch of thugs in suits. What you see on TV and in movies is a ridiculous romanticization of thugs in suits. But what your posts says is unfortunately correct. People ignore God and then they wonder why their lives are such a mess.

May the Peace and the Joy of Christ be with you, Caroline!

 

[Epiphanygirl]

The *w* word. Ooooh.... Is that allowed?

ROFL

 

[Markh]

I normally say

well, belief is a thing, it is an action and if you belive in him 100% you will obviously do 100% what he says else you obviously do not believe as he tells you to "keep the commandments" and if you don't believe in that part of him you obviously don't belive in him.