John 3:13

[godisagardener]

John 3:13 tells us "No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven".

The more I study this, the more confused I get. Does this mean that neither Enoch nor Elijah went directly to heaven? What about those in the faith chapter of Hebrews? Did no one go to heaven before Christ ascended?

Would appreciate any comments. Thanks.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

I personally think Enoch and Elijah accounts of ascension are mythical truth.

 

[Jonaitis]

I believe the verse before it is relevant:

"If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things?"
- John 3:12

It must mean, then, that no one has ascended who has not also descended to reveal god's counsel.

 

[Athanasius377]

John 3:13 tells us "No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven".

The more I study this, the more confused I get. Does this mean that neither Enoch nor Elijah went directly to heaven? What about those in the faith chapter of Hebrews? Did no one go to heaven before Christ ascended?

Would appreciate any comments. Thanks.

A couple of thoughts, First, it is true, no one has ever ascended into heaven (Prov 30:4) but rather were taken up into heaven. Enoch was "taken by God" and Elijah was taken up to heaven by a whirlwind. Second, there seems to have been an expectation that other seers were supposed to have been to heaven and came back with messages for those on Earth. Jesus contradicts their claims by stating his own authority on things from Heaven.

 

[HTacianas]

John 3:13 tells us "No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven".

The more I study this, the more confused I get. Does this mean that neither Enoch nor Elijah went directly to heaven? What about those in the faith chapter of Hebrews? Did no one go to heaven before Christ ascended?

Would appreciate any comments. Thanks.

It's not an absolute. The meaning is "no one here among us today" has ascended to heaven...

 

[Paul4JC]

John 3:13 tells us "No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven".

The more I study this, the more confused I get. Does this mean that neither Enoch nor Elijah went directly to heaven? What about those in the faith chapter of Hebrews? Did no one go to heaven before Christ ascended?

Would appreciate any comments. Thanks.

Excellent questions. In the case of Enoch, Elijah, and others who went up to heaven; They were taken up not of their own power, but escorted by angels, whereas the Son of Man descended and ascended himself on his own accord and power. Angels may have accompanied him but as his servants.

Another perspective is this. The highest heaven, no one has ascended there. The closest they or we will come is near the throne of God, but the highest heaven belongs to him alone in his manifold glory, forever and ever, Amen.

 

[godisagardener]

A couple of thoughts, First, it is true, no one has ever ascended into heaven (Prov 30:4) but rather were taken up into heaven. Enoch was "taken by God" and Elijah was taken up to heaven by a whirlwind. Second, there seems to have been an expectation that other seers were supposed to have been to heaven and came back with messages for those on Earth. Jesus contradicts their claims by stating his own authority on things from Heaven.

Thank you for the reminder of the verse from Proverbs. Also, I suppose I've been focusing too much on heaven, rather than ascension, and didn't give thought to how Enoch and Elijah were taken up. Hebrews 11:5 in the KJV says that Enoch was translated, or transferred, to heaven. That brings even more clarity.

Thanks for your comment.

 

[godisagardener]

I personally think Enoch and Elijah accounts of ascension are mythical truth.

That makes me curious. Explanation?

 

[Clare73]

John 3:13 tells us "No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven".

The more I study this, the more confused I get. Does this mean that neither Enoch nor Elijah went directly to heaven? What about those in the faith chapter of Hebrews? Did no one go to heaven before Christ ascended?

Would appreciate any comments. Thanks.

Jesus is speaking of heavenly things--incarnation of the Son of God

No one can earn his way to heaven except Jesus, who has come down from heaven to save us, and is the only way to heaven.

 

[Wayne Gabler]

It is a reference to the location of the Great White Throne location. Hebrews:12 is an expansion of the GWT in Re:20. That means Mount Sion is where the angels on Jacob's ladder will find the 'upper level unlocked' and they will ascend to there as that is their promised new heaven. Man that made immortal will inherit the place they ascend from. Isa:65 covers the whole universe as the area of the new earth.

 

[Guojing]

John 3:13 tells us "No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven".

The more I study this, the more confused I get. Does this mean that neither Enoch nor Elijah went directly to heaven? What about those in the faith chapter of Hebrews? Did no one go to heaven before Christ ascended?

Would appreciate any comments. Thanks.

There is no scripture saying that Enoch actually went to heaven

As for Elijah, he was taken to the first heaven, not the third heaven when God is. He came back down and died again like the rest and is now in Abraham's bosom

 

[throughfiierytrial]

There is no scripture saying that Enoch actually went to heaven

As for Elijah, he was taken to the first heaven, not the third heaven when God is. He came back down and died again like the rest and is now in Abraham's bosom

Speculation only I'd say.

 

[Guojing]

Speculation only I'd say.

Which paragraph are you referring to?

 

[d taylor]

John 3:13 tells us "No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven".

The more I study this, the more confused I get. Does this mean that neither Enoch nor Elijah went directly to heaven? What about those in the faith chapter of Hebrews? Did no one go to heaven before Christ ascended?

Would appreciate any comments. Thanks.

Enoch "then he was no more" he was taken away by God transported to the grave (Sheol)

Elijah was taken up in a whirlwind into the sky and transported to another area on earth.
Where did Elijah go? - Right Reason

 

[Guojing]

Enoch "then he was no more" he was taken away by God transported to the grave (Sheol)

Elijah was taken up in a whirlwind into the sky and transported to another area on earth.
Where did Elijah go? - Right Reason

If I recall correctly, you were the one whom I said is an Acts 2 or classical dispensationalist correct?

 

[d taylor]

If I recall correctly, you were the one whom I said is an Acts 2 or classical dispensationalist correct?

I think you have stated i am that. I identify myself as free grace and i do follow dispensationalism but i may differ in some areas as people who say they are dispensationalism have some different beliefs.

 

[Guojing]

I think you have stated i am that. I identify myself as free grace and i do follow dispensationalism but i may differ in some areas as people who say they are dispensationalism have some different beliefs.

I see, I just remembered you nickname.

From our debate over what John really meant in 1 John 3:14-15 in the other thread, you can understand why acts 2 dispensationalists like yourself have to play mental gymnastics with the literal words of 1 John, in order to make Paul and John say the same thing regarding salvation?