John 3:13?

[TrustAndObey]

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, [even] the Son of man which is in heaven.

This verse confuses me. Isn't Enoch in heaven, and Elijah?

 

[Jimlarmore]

Christ also says that no man hath seen the Father either. I thought about the same thing you have just mentioned on that one as well. The only thing I can think of on this is when Christ speaks of heaven He is speaking of the actual place we would call the temple of God where the Father dwells. Christ knew He would ascend directly to the presense of the Father when He went up to present His blood as an atonement for sin. Enoch and Elijah possibly went up to the heavenly city but were not allowed into the temple where the Father sits. This is speculation on my part I know.


God Bless
Jim Larmore

 

[TrustAndObey]

Someone told me a long time ago that they interpreted the verse to mean that no one has come down from heaven, been on earth, and then went back UP.

Does that explanation sound plausible from that verse?

 

[OntheDL]

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, [even] the Son of man which is in heaven.

This verse confuses me. Isn't Enoch in heaven, and Elijah?

Peter spoke about the same thing.

Acts 2
34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.

The resurrection and ascension of the saints will not happen until the end with the exception of Jesus who God raised up.

Yes, Enoch, Elijah and Moses are in heaven. They are the exception to the rule. But the rule applies to everyone else, even King David.

 

[TrustAndObey]

Peter spoke about the same thing.

Acts 2
34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.

The resurrection and ascension of the saints will not happen until the end with the exception of Jesus who God raised up.

Yes, Enoch, Elijah and Moses are in heaven. They are the exception to the rule. But the rule applies to everyone else, even King David.

I totally agree that there were exception, but why does the verse say NO man (except the Son of man) has ascended up to heaven, when we know Elijah did?

That's what confuses me.

 

[woobadooba]

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, [even] the Son of man which is in heaven.

This verse confuses me. Isn't Enoch in heaven, and Elijah?

Jesus was speaking within the context of being born again--salvation.

It is true that Enoch, Elijah and Moses are in heaven. However, they didn't get there on their own. They were just as much dependent on Christ for salvation as we are, because without Jesus' sacrifice they wouldn't be where they are today.

Think about what this means...

There is a very powerful lesson about God in this. Can you see it? It has to do with His ability to keep His promises.

Now then, back to the point: These men were taken up into heaven. However, Jesus doesn't need to be taken up into heaven, because as God He comes and goes as He pleases. There is nothing that could keep one out of heaven, but sin. And since Jesus was and is without sin, nothing could keep him from heaven.

Jesus is God. He is eternal. He is our savior.

We could never get into heaven on our own. However, by placing our trust in Him who came down from heaven, and could ascend to heaven at will, we can be assured to know that He has the power to take us there, if only we would let Him enter into our hearts by being born again.

Here is something else that is interesting about what Jesus had said: He used the words, "which is in heaven", thus implying that even as He was speaking to Nicodemus while on the earth, He was in heaven. Hence He was speaking of His divinity here, and thereby declared Himself to be God, which is fitting because John placed great emphasis on the divinity of Christ in His gospel account.

 

[TrustAndObey]

So you think it basically means that those men were not capable of ascending up to heaven on their own?

That makes sense.

It's still a little puzzling that the verse says no man hath ascended, because we know some did, but you're just saying not on their own? God brought them up, they didn't ascend themselves, right?

 

[woobadooba]

It's still a little puzzling that the verse says no man hath ascended, because we know some did, but you're just saying not on their own? God brought them up, they didn't ascend themselves, right?

Yes.

You see, we have to interpret this in light of the discussion that Jesus had with Nicodemus. Jesus was speaking to him as a man; yet, He was also speaking to him as God. And the topic was salvation.

No man could enter into heaven by reason of his own merit. He must be born again.

Jesus is God of heaven and earth, and only through Him can we be given access to heaven. No man can ascend to heaven on his own; and no man ever has ascended to heaven on His own, except the one who descended from heaven--Jesus Christ.

 

[Jimlarmore]

Yes.

You see, we have to interpret this in light of the discussion that Jesus had with Nicodemus. Jesus was speaking to him as a man; yet, He was also speaking to him as God. And the topic was salvation.

No man could enter into heaven by reason of his own merit. He must be born again.

Jesus is God of heaven and earth, and only through Him can we be given access to heaven. No man can ascend to heaven on his own; and no man ever has ascended to heaven on His own, except the one who descended from heaven--Jesus Christ.

This is good and makes sense in light of the context. Thanks for this insight Woob

God Bless
Jim Larmore

 

[thecountrydoc]

Hi Lainie,

You have ask a very good question. First lets take another look at the text in question, John 3:13.

"And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven."

This verse is made up of four phrases that we should take a closer look at. They are:


No man. No man can speak for God with authority about "heavenly things" unless he has been in heaven (cf v. 11). Men decern the secrets of heaven only by revelation, never by speculating about them.

Acended up into heaven. That is, no human being has gone to heaven to learn of "heavenly things" (v.12). Only the Son of man, who came down from heaven, has ever been there, and He alone can reveal them. There is no reference to Christ ascension to heaven following the resurection.

Came down from heaven. Compare ch. 6:33, 38, 41, 50, 51, 58; see on ch. 1:4.

Son of man. Jesus' characteristic title for Himself, use of which here is evidence that Jesus is still speaking. See on Mark 2:10.

Which is in heaven. Important textual evidence may be cited for the ommision of this clause. If retained, it refers to the timeless existance of Jesus in heaven, and His permanent abode. Possibly, however, the phrase was added later by a scribe, and thus at a time when Jesus was once more "in heaven."

I pray that this may be of help in understanding John 3:13.

Respectfully, your brother in Christ,
Doc

 

[OntheDL]

Here are some SOP comments on it.

"Jesus Christ was the True Witness. He declares He came from the Father. "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know , and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe if I tell you of heavenly things? And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven." John 3:11-13. He said He came to reveal the Father.
Our only safety is to believe that which is truth because it is true, not because it harmonizes with our preconceived opinions and it is pleasant and agreeable to believe that which we want to believe because it harmonizes with our ideas. Do we accept the words of Christ as verity and truth because He is a divine Witness whose testimony is to be accepted, studied, and revered because He is the Sent from God? The raising of Christ from the dead establishes Christ as a witness to the wonderful truth--which means so much to us--of the resurrection of every one who believes in Jesus Christ." --- Miscellaneous Collections 1888, p886.

"Jesus had a disciple in Nicodemus. In that night conference with Jesus the convicted man stood before the Saviour under the softening, subduing influence of truth which was shining into the chambers of his mind, and impressing his heart. Jesus said, "If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven." Jesus not only tells Nicodemus that he must have a new heart in order to see the kingdom of heaven, but tells him how to obtain a new heart. He reads the inquiring mind of a true seeker after truth, and presents before him the representation of himself: "As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life." Good news! good news! ring throughout the world! "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." This lesson is one of the greatest importance to every soul that lives; for the terms of salvation are here laid out in distinct lines. If one had no other text in the Bible, this alone would be a guide for the soul. ---Special Testimonies to Ministers and Workers, p27.

 

[TrustAndObey]

Here are some SOP comments on it.

"Jesus Christ was the True Witness. He declares He came from the Father. "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know , and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe if I tell you of heavenly things? And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven." John 3:11-13. He said He came to reveal the Father.
Our only safety is to believe that which is truth because it is true, not because it harmonizes with our preconceived opinions and it is pleasant and agreeable to believe that which we want to believe because it harmonizes with our ideas. Do we accept the words of Christ as verity and truth because He is a divine Witness whose testimony is to be accepted, studied, and revered because He is the Sent from God? The raising of Christ from the dead establishes Christ as a witness to the wonderful truth--which means so much to us--of the resurrection of every one who believes in Jesus Christ." --- Miscellaneous Collections 1888, p886.

"Jesus had a disciple in Nicodemus. In that night conference with Jesus the convicted man stood before the Saviour under the softening, subduing influence of truth which was shining into the chambers of his mind, and impressing his heart. Jesus said, "If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven." Jesus not only tells Nicodemus that he must have a new heart in order to see the kingdom of heaven, but tells him how to obtain a new heart. He reads the inquiring mind of a true seeker after truth, and presents before him the representation of himself: "As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life." Good news! good news! ring throughout the world! "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." This lesson is one of the greatest importance to every soul that lives; for the terms of salvation are here laid out in distinct lines. If one had no other text in the Bible, this alone would be a guide for the soul. ---Special Testimonies to Ministers and Workers, p27.

Thank you OntheDL!!