John 20:28 is the next "trinitarian proof text" to fall.

[Dartman]

28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

1) The verse does NOT say; And Thomas called Jesus, My Lord and my God.
2) The CONTEXT establishes, Thomas had JUST accepted that his God had resurrected his Lord from the dead. It makes PERFECT sense that Thomas would praise both.

 

[PeterDona]

So is your point that you will not have the text to say that Jesus was the God of Thomas?

In your view, is Jesus God?

 

[Swan7]

Throughout the NT (New Testiment), Jesus is called Lord, Rabbi (Teacher), Master, Shepard, Saviour, Lamb of God, I AM, Truth, Light of the world, Living Water, Holy One, Messiah, Salt of the earth, Counselor, Rock and my Fortress, Redeemer, Counselor, Prince of Peace, and I am sure there are others. Point is he's called many things, even Emmanuel which means "God is with us".

John 10:30
The whole of John 1.

Spoiler: 1 John 5:7-13

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.

10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. ~KJV

For those who are seeking Truth, Jesus says it best: Matthew 13:16.

 

[tstor]

28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

1) The verse does NOT say; And Thomas called Jesus, My Lord and my God.
2) The CONTEXT establishes, Thomas had JUST accepted that his God had resurrected his Lord from the dead. It makes PERFECT sense that Thomas would praise both.

There are several ways to interpret this passage in a unitarian way. One that I like is that Thomas had seen God (the Father) through the redeeming work of Jesus. It is recorded earlier in chapter 14 that those who have seen the Son have also seen the Father. I believe that this realization had finally clicked for Thomas. He was not calling Jesus "God," but was truly seeing the Father revealed through the Christ.

 

[curiouskay]

I know I wasn't asked but since this is an open forum I will add this- Jesus was/is one of God's children

 

[stuart lawrence]

So is your point that you will not have the text to say that Jesus was the God of Thomas?

In your view, is Jesus God?

The God of Israel was seen by 74 leaders of the Israelites in the desert( ex24:9-11)

However:

No man hath seen God at anytime
1john4:12

 

[Dartman]

So is your point that you will not have the text to say that Jesus was the God of Thomas?

Correct.

In your view, is Jesus God?

Absolutely not. Jesus is the son of God.

 

[Dartman]

Throughout the NT (New Testiment), Jesus is called Lord, Rabbi (Teacher), Master, Shepard, Saviour, Lamb of God,

Yes.

I AM,

No. Jesus is NEVER called "I am". Jesus DOES use the prepositional phrase "ego emi"... which is NOT the same as "O ON" in the Greek version of Ex


Truth, Light of the world, Living Water, Holy One, Messiah, Salt of the earth,[/quote] Yes.

Counselor, Rock and my Fortress,

No.

Redeemer, Prince of Peace, and I am sure there are others. Point is he's called many things, even Emmanuel which means "God is with us".

Yes, Jesus is proof that God is NOT against us, He is with us.

 

[Dartman]

There are several ways to interpret this passage in a unitarian way. One that I like is that Thomas had seen God (the Father) through the redeeming work of Jesus. It is recorded earlier in chapter 14 that those who have seen the Son have also seen the Father. I believe that this realization had finally clicked for Thomas. He was not calling Jesus "God," but was truly seeing the Father revealed through the Christ.

This is certainly true in the greater context of Scripture, but isn't relevant to the immediate context.
In the immediate context, Thomas had JUST been persuaded that his God had raised his Lord from the dead. Praising both is VERY natural.

 

[JIMINZ]

Correct.

Absolutely not. Jesus is the son of God.

.
Ummmm
When Jesus uses the term Father, is He speaking of God?

Joh 14:8,9
8) Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9) Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

 

[JIMINZ]

Yes.
No. Jesus is NEVER called "I am". Jesus DOES use the prepositional phrase "ego emi"... which is NOT the same as "O ON" in the Greek version of Ex

.
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Joh 1:10,11
10) He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11) He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

 

[Ken Rank]

28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

1) The verse does NOT say; And Thomas called Jesus, My Lord and my God.
2) The CONTEXT establishes, Thomas had JUST accepted that his God had resurrected his Lord from the dead. It makes PERFECT sense that Thomas would praise both.

It also doesn't say, "he faced him" or "stood near him" and said "my Lord and my God." It says, "he said TO HIM."

That said, this is a weak verse to use to prove deity anyway. It would be far easier to go look at what Yeshua quoted when John's disciples came and asked, "are you the one to come or do we look for another?" It would be easier to understand what the Memra (Word) was understood as in that time frame and how it was used in the Targumim. Course, we could just rip Paul out because he said he was 'the fullness of Godhead bodily' and "theos manifested in the flesh." We can yank out John who said, 'the Word WAS GOD.' We can take Yeshua's own words out when he said both he AND the Father would send the Spirit and then later said he was the one who would be sent. Of course the Spirit of the Son can't be in you, or the Spirit of Christ, since that just can't.... so we have to remove those verses as well.

I can literally produce hundreds of verses and some science to prove that Yeshua had to be God. But you are not here to hear that... you are here to cause division and doubt, right? What difference does it make to YOU what anyone else believes? Let them serve their Lord as they understand him... unless you are looking to be served?

 

[JIMINZ]

I can literally produce hundreds of verses and some science to prove that Yeshua had to be God. But you are not here to hear that... you are here to cause division and doubt, right? What difference does it make to YOU what anyone else believes? Let them serve their Lord as they understand him... unless you are looking to be served?

.
AMEN! !

Rom. 14:4
Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

Those who are not seeking, will never find.

 

[tstor]

This is certainly true in the greater context of Scripture, but isn't relevant to the immediate context.
In the immediate context, Thomas had JUST been persuaded that his God had raised his Lord from the dead. Praising both is VERY natural.

I agree, but Thomas was also witnessing the full extent of the work of God. Prior to this point his faith was not firm in the work of the Christ through the power of the Father. I most certainly have no problem with your interpretation, however.

 

[Dartman]

.
Ummmm
When Jesus uses the term Father, is He speaking of God?

Of course.

Joh 14:8,9
8) Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9) Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

 

[Dartman]

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Yes, God's words, God's logos, was with God, and DEFINES God to us.

Joh 1:10,11
10) He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11) He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

Yes, Jesus was rejected by the world, including the Jews.

You DO realize we are discussing John 20:28 .... right??
I have already explained John 1 in a different thread! You are certainly welcome to discuss John 1 there. John 1:1-5 is NOT a 'trinitarin' text

 

[Dartman]

It also doesn't say, "he faced him" or "stood near him" and said "my Lord and my God." It says, "he said TO HIM."

Of course. That's not the question.
The question is, what did he mean.
There is NO WAY to determine what Thomas meant by just those 5 words.

That said, this is a weak verse to use to prove deity anyway.

It's a failure, it isn't just weak.

It would be far easier to go look at what Yeshua quoted when John's disciples came and asked, "are you the one to come or do we look for another?" It would be easier to understand what the Memra (Word) was understood as in that time frame and how it was used in the Targumim.

Why don't you just find a verse that actually STATES your theory?
Trinitarians claim their theology is required in order to be Christian. If you don't think so, read the rules for this site!
PLEASE show me even ONE text in the Scriptures that states this!!!

Course, we could just rip Paul out because he said he was 'the fullness of Godhead bodily' and "theos manifested in the flesh."

None of those phrases mean Jesus IS God!! In fact, they prove he ISN'T God, instead he is a man who is FULL of God, and MANIFESTS/SHOWS his God.
It is no surprise you dig yourself in a deeper hole, you are trying to support an erroneous theory.

We can yank out John who said, 'the Word WAS GOD.'

God's words ARE God. They DEFINE God for us.

I can literally produce hundreds of verses and some science to prove that Yeshua had to be God.

Hogwash. Your efforts so far clearly establish the ONLY thing you CAN provide is the same, warped interpretations of a handful of texts taken out of context.

 

[JIMINZ]

Yes, God's words, God's logos, was with God, and DEFINES God to us.
Yes, Jesus was rejected by the world, including the Jews.

You DO realize we are discussing John 20:28 .... right??
I have already explained John 1 in a different thread! You are certainly welcome to discuss John 1 there. John 1:1-5 is NOT a 'trinitarin' text

.
Sorry, but your explanations are wrong.

 

[Dartman]

.
Sorry, but your explanations are wrong.

Check the 40 times John uses LOGOS in his epistle. My explanations are consistent with Scripture. The trinity is not.

 

[Beorh]

28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

1) The verse does NOT say; And Thomas called Jesus, My Lord and my God.
2) The CONTEXT establishes, Thomas had JUST accepted that his God had resurrected his Lord from the dead. It makes PERFECT sense that Thomas would praise both.

Yeah whatever man.