John 17:6

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Ima Knerd

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Jesus said,"I have made your name known to those whom you gave me from the world. They were yours, and you gave them to me, and they have kept your word."

In what later came to be known as his "high priestly prayer," Jesus is shown in John's account as giving his disciples back to the Father and praying for their future. His intention, he said, had been to make God's "name known" so that his followers could go forward in truth and protected by that name.

Earlier efforts to tell God's story had gotten distorted by intermediaries who took a message of unconditional love for humankind and made it into a mean-spirited, elitist, legalistic drawing of ethnic lines.

Once Jesus departed, intermediaries again took charge of his story and again distorted it. Their motives may have been pure. But the message received was this: salvation is a prize that will be won by only a few, and those few
will be determined by obedience of the Church's rules.


Religious history became a process of debating the rules. In time, God was depicted as one who toys with people, as
a fickle friend, easily alienated, and prickly about small things.

God became a dread force threatening one day to destroy it all, as the radio preacher said last night in a blistering assault on modernity, a warning of the "rapture," and an invitation to buy his tapes...

It is time for those of us on this message board to ask: What did Jesus himself say? What story did he live? It is time to look beyond the self-serving motivations of distorters and to discern, as best we can, the name that Jesus actually made known.

Speaking for myself, what I hear Jesus pointing to is his circle of compassion and respect, his embracing of women and men as equals, his blurring of family and ethnic lines, his focus on persons and not laws, his call to serve and not to rule, his sacrifice of self for the good of the other.
 

Evan

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JOH 17:6 ¶ "I have manifested Your name to the men whom You gave Me out of the world; they were Yours and You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word.

I agree with your post in that it is not "those few who will be determined by obedience of the Church's rules." But it is rather those who have been determined who will obey the Word of God.

Those whom will be saved are those whom the Father gives to His Son, Christ says. They were His Fathers and He gave them to His Son. Who are these? None other than God's elect whom He predestined to be saved before the foundation of the earth. Obviously, many heard Christs' message but to only those whom His Father gave Him did Christ reveal effectively and savingly who Christ really was.

The name Christ reveals to God's elect is Jesus Christ as the only Redeemer, Priest, Saviour, and only Way to heaven.
Christ does this effectively through the Holy Spirit. The proof that they are God's elect is they obey the call and come to Christ.

No one can come to Christ unless the Father draws them to Christ, and all the Father draws to Christ will always always come to Christ and then Christ will reveal to them who He really is, i.e., the name of God.

JOH 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him...
JOH 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me...
 
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Ima Knerd

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I am drawing a distinction between the religion ABOUT Jesus and the religion OF Jesus.

The New Testament gospels are theological from begining to end. They are faith documents.

We need to understand that the first Christians experienced Jesus as continuing to be present with them after he died. They--like you--were not so much concenerned about the Jesus who was but the Jesus who is; not the Jesus who said, but the Jesus who says; not the Jesus who did but the Jesus who does.

Both views of Jesus have their place. Because I focus on "the Jesus who was, the Jesus who said and the Jesus who did" does not mean I ignore the Christian "meaning" of his words and deeds. This would entail throwing out most of the New Testament!

Again, I am pointing out who I believe the Jesus who
actually was over and against the "politically
(and religiously) correct" Jesus who too-often is.

Perhaps the following three statements will clarify where I am coming from. I try not to mix what are clearly "apples" with what are clearly "oranges":

Jesus was a man. That is a statement of FACT.
Jesus was the Son of God. That is a statement of BELIEF.
Christianity is looking at the MAN Jesus and seeing a manifestation of the DIVINE on earth.

To summarize, I ask these two questions which I hope we as Christians will answer in the affirmative:

Are we willing to let Jesus practice as he preached? Are we willing to let him speak for himself?
 
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BigEd

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You make a great point aikido..
It's so easy in all the debates over doctrine and theology to loss focus on Jesus Christ. I think its part of human nature ( may i even say sin nature) to complicate things. Christ many times in the gosples boiled everything down to the essence. there is now doubt that the church ( and i include myself in this) of act pharasical, worry more about the thoeries and doctrine instead of showing the love of christ to the world.

Thankfully the lord is merciful to us foolish sheep. this foolish sheep must always look to his shepard.
 
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