John 14: BORN AGAIN

[Jesusfann777888]

John 8:31 – 32 chronicles one of Jesus' statements to his disciples. He said, “IF you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples, 32 and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”


15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

21 Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”

22 Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, “But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?”

23 Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. 24 Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

so does that mean if you keep Jesus commandment'S this is how you are born of The Holy Spirit?

 

[Guojing]

John 8:31 – 32 chronicles one of Jesus' statements to his disciples. He said, “IF you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples, 32 and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”


15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

21 Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”

22 Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, “But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?”

23 Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. 24 Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

so does that mean if you keep Jesus commandment'S this is how you are born of The Holy Spirit?

You must learn to rightly divide the word of truth.

 

[Jesusfann777888]

You must learn to rightly divide the word of truth.

Where is this Bible verse?

 

[Guojing]

Where is this Bible verse?

2 Timothy 2:15

 

[Jesusfann777888]

You must learn to rightly divide the word of truth.

Jesus said if a person keeps His Commandment's that he and the father will make their home with them.

Home is in the context of viewing a person as a house. What are you talking about?

 

[Jesusfann777888]

2 Timothy 2:15

It doesn't say anything about dividing, it say read to show yourself approved.

 

[Guojing]

It doesn't say anything about dividing, it say read to show yourself approved.

You have to read it in the KJV

 

[Guojing]

Jesus said if a person keeps His Commandment's that he and the father will make their home with them.

Home is in the context of viewing a person as a house. What are you talking about?

Jesus also said Matthew 15:24.

To put it simply, none of what he said before the cross, are instructions that apply to you directly.

It is written FOR your learning, just like the rest of the OT.

 

[Jesusfann777888]

Jesus also said Matthew 15:24.

To put it simply, none of what he said before the cross, are instructions that apply to you directly.

It is written FOR your learning, just like the rest of the OT.

That's not true. Everything he said applied to people about keeping his commandment's. That applie's to everyone.John is also in the NT.

 

[Guojing]

That's not true. Everything he said applied to people about keeping his commandment's. That applie's to everyone.John is also in the NT.

Alright then, if you feel that way, then yes, what John 14 says is that YOU have to keep the commandments to be born of The Holy Spirit.

 

[Jesusfann777888]

Alright then, if you feel that way, then yes, what John 14 says is that YOU have to keep the commandments to be born of The Holy Spirit.

Yeah I FEEL that way.

 

[disciple Clint]

John 8:31 – 32 chronicles one of Jesus' statements to his disciples. He said, “IF you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples, 32 and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”


15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

21 Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”

22 Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, “But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?”

23 Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. 24 Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

so does that mean if you keep Jesus commandment'S this is how you are born of The Holy Spirit?

You receive the Holy Spirit at baptism.

 

[TzephanYahu]

Shalom @Jesusfann777888,

How are you doing my brother?

so does that mean if you keep Jesus commandment'S this is how you are born of The Holy Spirit?

From what I understand from Scriptures and witnessed in other people's experiences, you do not need to keep the commandments to be baptised with the Holy Spirit. It's a gift of Yahweh given through the Messiah to those He chooses. But one's heart must be right or they will not receive this blessing at all.

Some common misconceptions is that everyone who believes in the Messiah is born of the Holy Spirit or baptised by the Holy Spirit. That isn't true. Just as one knows if they have been baptised in water, so too they will know they have been baptised in the Spirit - and won't be left wondering if it happened or not. I was under this misconception for a long time, because of poor teaching, until thankfully the Father woke me up out of that position.

Now, that said, the commandments are very important. To be clear: Obedience to Torah is not necessary for salvation, but if we are saved we should want to be obedient. Not out of fear of damnation - but out of love and thanksgiving service to the Lord and happy to correct our paths to the righteous one!

Christianity, as it exists today, tends to write-off the OT as "for the Jews" and "we are no longer under the Law" etc. This is primarily based on misunderstanding the Apostle Paul's writings. And, to be fair, some of his words can be hard to understand - but Paul was never against Torah.

Excitingly, the Father seems to be waking up many in these last days to listen to His instructions and put them into practice, wherever we can. The fact you are asking this question may even mean He is opening your eyes to this truth too! Nevertheless, in mainstream Christianity, this subject is still taboo and anyone having a loving respect and observance of Yahweh's Torah is seen as a "legalist", "deceived", "judaizer" or being "under the law trying to be saved by works". Very sad and very unbiblical.

I encourage you to search out this matter directly in the Scriptures - not with the guidance of any man, teacher, church, Bible College or well-renowned commentary. You have the ability within yourself to find out the truth of the matter and don't be afraid if what you discover means you are not following the majority. Majorities rarely mean safety.

But, to start you off, if the Father's Torah is no longer important for the Christian and we are free to live as we wish "under grace", then what did our Lord mean when He said:

"Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." - Matthew 5:19

So then, we see above that obedience to Torah is not a matter of salvation. Salvation is by grace alone, through the atoning death and resurrection of the Messiah. BUT there will be some who will be called "the least" in the Kingdom of God and the Lord describes these people as ones who breaks the commandments and teaches other men to do so - i.e. "we're under grace! The Law no longer applies!"

Does this mean you need to obey all the Torah from today? No. It seems from what we learn in Acts 15, that we are under grace to learn it incrementally and change one step at a time.

As you read through the Scriptures, the Spirit will guide you on matters of Torah and convict you on it gently and slowly (thankfully!) Our Father is full of grace and mercy and He understands that we are all coming from different walks of life and that it will take us time to understand and implement changes. It's taken me years and it's been a fascinating adventure so far and I still have far to go - and I'm super excited for it. And I promise you, if you seek His ways truly with all your heart, soon observance of instructions like the Sabbath will be a pure joy. I look forward to greatly each week!

I wrote to someone else about this matter the other day and perhaps what I shared with him may also help you: If you have the heart to learn, adapt and try to grow in His Ways, it's comparable to the man who already succeeds in these things - even if you stumble and fall at times. But, conversely, if you are unwilling to learn, adapt and try to grow in His Ways, it's comparable to the man who has already failed - even though he hopes in grace. In summary, our heart attitude towards Torah is far more important than our adherence to it - if that makes sense.

This may raise a slew of other questions from you so feel free to ask away and I'll try and help or point you in the right direction at least .

May our Father continue to bless you with Wisdom and insight into His Scriptures and upon the baptism of the Holy Spirit, in the name of His Son.

Love & Shalom

 

[disciple Clint]

Shalom @Jesusfann777888,

How are you doing my brother?



From what I understand from Scriptures and witnessed in other people's experiences, you do not need to keep the commandments to be baptised with the Holy Spirit. It's a gift of Yahweh given through the Messiah to those He chooses. But one's heart must be right or they will not receive this blessing at all.

Some common misconceptions is that everyone who believes in the Messiah is born of the Holy Spirit or baptised by the Holy Spirit. That isn't true. Just as one knows if they have been baptised in water, so too they will know they have been baptised in the Spirit - and won't be left wondering if it happened or not. I was under this misconception for a long time, because of poor teaching, until thankfully the Father woke me up out of that position.

Now, that said, the commandments are very important. To be clear: Obedience to Torah is not necessary for salvation, but if we are saved we should want to be obedient. Not out of fear of damnation - but out of love and thanksgiving service to the Lord and happy to correct our paths to the righteous one!

Christianity, as it exists today, tends to write-off the OT as "for the Jews" and "we are no longer under the Law" etc. This is primarily based on misunderstanding the Apostle Paul's writings. And, to be fair, some of his words can be hard to understand - but Paul was never against Torah.

Excitingly, the Father seems to be waking up many in these last days to listen to His instructions and put them into practice, wherever we can. The fact you are asking this question may even mean He is opening your eyes to this truth too! Nevertheless, in mainstream Christianity, this subject is still taboo and anyone having a loving respect and observance of Yahweh's Torah is seen as a "legalist", "deceived", "judaizer" or being "under the law trying to be saved by works". Very sad and very unbiblical.

I encourage you to search out this matter directly in the Scriptures - not with the guidance of any man, teacher, church, Bible College or well-renowned commentary. You have the ability within yourself to find out the truth of the matter and don't be afraid if what you discover means you are not following the majority. Majorities rarely mean safety.

But, to start you off, if the Father's Torah is no longer important for the Christian and we are free to live as we wish "under grace", then what did our Lord mean when He said:

"Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." - Matthew 5:19

So then, we see above that obedience to Torah is not a matter of salvation. Salvation is by grace alone, through the atoning death and resurrection of the Messiah. BUT there will be some who will be called "the least" in the Kingdom of God and the Lord describes these people as ones who breaks the commandments and teaches other men to do so - i.e. "we're under grace! The Law no longer applies!"

Does this mean you need to obey all the Torah from today? No. It seems from what we learn in Acts 15, that we are under grace to learn it incrementally and change one step at a time.

As you read through the Scriptures, the Spirit will guide you on matters of Torah and convict you on it gently and slowly (thankfully!) Our Father is full of grace and mercy and He understands that we are all coming from different walks of life and that it will take us time to understand and implement changes. It's taken me years and it's been a fascinating adventure so far and I still have far to go - and I'm super excited for it. And I promise you, if you seek His ways truly with all your heart, soon observance of instructions like the Sabbath will be a pure joy. I look forward to greatly each week!

I wrote to someone else about this matter the other day and perhaps what I shared with him may also help you: If you have the heart to learn, adapt and try to grow in His Ways, it's comparable to the man who already succeeds in these things - even if you stumble and fall at times. But, conversely, if you are unwilling to learn, adapt and try to grow in His Ways, it's comparable to the man who has already failed - even though he hopes in grace. In summary, our heart attitude towards Torah is far more important than our adherence to it - if that makes sense.

This may raise a slew of other questions from you so feel free to ask away and I'll try and help or point you in the right direction at least .

May our Father continue to bless you with Wisdom and insight into His Scriptures and upon the baptism of the Holy Spirit, in the name of His Son.

Love & Shalom

The Holy Spirit does live in a person who is water baptized. The baptism of the Holy Spirit for gifts as accepted in Pentecostal based denominations is a separate baptism not of water but of spirit. There are things in the O.T. that apply to all believers we do not escape the Decalogue, that is not what was nailed to the cross.

 

[BrotherJJ]

That's not true. Everything he said applied to people about keeping his commandment's. That applie's to everyone.John is also in the NT.

John 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

Question: Who is Jesus speaking to? Jews not everyone.

Matt 15:24 Jesus answered & said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
(NOTE: Jesus say's; He has been sent, ONLY, to the lost sheep of the ""House of Israel"")

Rom 15:8 I say that Messiah was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:
(NOTE: Messiah came to preach to the circumcision/Jews only & to fulfil promises made to the circumcision's/Jews fathers, NOT GENTILES)

Jesus mission while alive was to Jews under Mosaic law covenant only. Jewish leadership rejects & has Jesus killed. After His resurrection Jesus chooses Paul (Acts 26:17) & sends him to gentiles.

 

[Guojing]

Matt 15:24 Jesus answered & said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
(NOTE: Jesus say's; He has been sent, ONLY, to the lost sheep of the ""House of Israel"")

Rom 15:8 I say that Messiah was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:
(NOTE: Messiah came to preach to the circumcision/Jews only & to fulfil promises made to the circumcision's/Jews fathers, NOT GENTILES)

Jesus mission while alive was to Jews under Mosaic law covenant only. Jewish leadership rejects & has Jesus killed. After His resurrection Jesus chooses Paul (Acts 26:17) & sends him to gentiles.

Pity so few churches actually teach this. Many people don't even realized Matthew 15:24 and Matthew 10:5 were spoken by Jesus.

 

[disciple Clint]

John 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

Question: Who is Jesus speaking to? Jews not everyone.

Matt 15:24 Jesus answered & said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
(NOTE: Jesus say's; He has been sent, ONLY, to the lost sheep of the ""House of Israel"")

Rom 15:8 I say that Messiah was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:
(NOTE: Messiah came to preach to the circumcision/Jews only & to fulfil promises made to the circumcision's/Jews fathers, NOT GENTILES)

Jesus mission while alive was to Jews under Mosaic law covenant only. Jewish leadership rejects & has Jesus killed. After His resurrection Jesus chooses Paul (Acts 26:17) & sends him to gentiles.

John 10:16 I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them in as well, and they will listen to My voice. Then there will be one flock and one shepherd.
Isaiah 42:6 "I, the LORD, have called you for a righteous purpose, and I will take hold of your hand. I will keep you and appoint you to be a covenant for the people and a light to the nations,
Matthew 28:19 English Standard Version (ESV) 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[ a] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Acts 10:34-36 King James Version (KJV). 34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: 35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
Ezekiel 38:23 I will magnify and sanctify Myself, and will reveal Myself in the sight of many nations. Then they will know that I am the LORD.

Most of the public ministry of Jesus was conducted in Jewish territory. Under the circumstances, the number of personal contacts with Gentiles recorded in the Gospels is surprising. He healed a Gadarene (Gentile) demoniac (Matthew 8:28-34). Another time, among 10 lepers healed, one was a Samaritan (a mixed race, half-Jew), and Jesus remarked upon the fact that only the foreigner returned to thank Him (Luke 17:12-19).

A Samaritan woman was the sole audience for one of Jesus’ greatest dialogues. She received the assurance that the time was near when God would be worshipped, not just in Jerusalem (where the Jews worshipped) or at Mt. Gerizim (where the Samaritans worshipped), but all over the world “in spirit and in truth” (John 4:5-42).

A Canaanite (Gentile) woman’s faith was rewarded when her daughter was healed. Much has been made of Jesus’ challenging remark at the beginning of the encounter: “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel” (Matthew 15:24, ESV). He declined to heal her because His mission was first to the Jews. The woman understood and didn’t challenge this. Even so, she humbly submitted herself to Jesus, asking for His mercy. The significant point is that Jesus did minister to this Gentile woman and praised her faith in the presence of His disciples and the Jewish onlookers (Matthew 15:28). This incident echoed forward to Romans 15:8-9 that the Gentiles might glorify God for His mercy.

Another example of Jesus reaching the Gentiles involved a Roman centurion whose servant was healed. Commander of a band of 100 foreign soldiers quartered at Capernaum to keep the peace, this Roman leader was despised by the Jews who resented this “army of occupation.” Conscious of his own authority as a military man, he humbly assured Jesus that it would not be necessary for Him to go to his house to heal his servant (and thus render Himself unclean — because He was a Jewish man — by entering a Gentile home). “But only say the word, and my servant will be healed,” he declared with genuine faith (Matthew 8:8, ESV). Jesus turned and announced to the Jewish crowd which was following Him: “Truly, I tell you, with no one in Israel have I found such faith” (Matthew 8:10, ESV). He did not stop there but continued with this solemn prediction: “I tell you, many such foreigners shall come from the east and the west to join Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. But many others who thought they were ‘sons of the kingdom’ (the chosen people of Israel) shall be shut out” (Matthew 8: 11-12, author’s paraphrase).

In Jerusalem, during the week of Passover, a group of Greeks who had made a commitment to follow the laws of Judaism asked to speak with Jesus (John 12). Their request for an audience caused Jesus to declare: “The hour has come for the Son of Man to be glorified” (John 12:23, ESV). The deep interest of the Greeks was evidence that the world was ready for His redemptive mission to be culminated by His atoning death: “And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself” (John 12:32, ESV). “All men” — Greeks as well as Jews — this is the clear implication of these profound words recorded by John.

https://www.cru.org/us/en/train-and...gelism-principles/jesus-and-the-gentiles.html

 

[Servus]

This is the way I understand it. If we keep His commandments we are His disciples indeed. That doesn't mean we are expected to be perfect in keeping His commandments. It means the more we keep them, the better of a disciple we are. Jesus gave about 38 commandments; they're not that hard to follow. The only one I struggle with the idea of adhering to Matthew 5:40.

Jesus gave us the Holy Spirit in His place to comfort and counsel us. We receive the Holy Spirit when we become born again. We become born again when we become saved. We become saved we repent (have a change of mind/heart) and believe/trust in Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior.

 

[disciple Clint]

This is the way I understand it. If we keep His commandments we are His disciples indeed. That doesn't mean we are expected to be perfect in keeping His commandments. It means the more we keep them, the better of a disciple we are. Jesus gave about 38 commandments; they're not that hard to follow. The only one I struggle with the idea of adhering to Matthew 5:40.

Jesus gave us the Holy Spirit in His place to comfort and counsel us. We receive the Holy Spirit when we become born again. We become born again when we become saved. We become saved we repent (have a change of mind/heart) and believe/trust in Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior.

Jesus gave about 38 commandments

What are those 38 commandments? Where are they in Scripture?

 

[Servus]

What are those 38 commandments? Where are they in Scripture?

I have a list on my home computer, but I'm on my phone. Here's a list of 49 commandments Jesus gave.
What are the commands of Christ?