John 1:12

[JohnDB]

For those that are asleep and need something to do here....
I have brought a simple question and study for you that has been a doozy of a question...

12 Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God — 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

OK, Why is everything in this passage that refers to what is commonly known in the Hebrew Language as the Bene Elohim (sons of God) in the past tense here?

Is it over as this verse would suggest? Does that mean we are all fooling ourselves? What is the major malfunction of this verse? Are we here solely as cannon fodder for the wrath of God or what?

 

[JTLauder]

I don't have time to do an indepth word study on the passage right now, but I'd suggest reading the verse in the context of the larger passage.

If you read just this single verse by itself, it would suggest that everything is in the past tense, referring to only those that received and believed prior to the writting of the book. Even so, there is nothing to say that it does not apply to present and future believers, just that it's talking about those in the past.

But that's not the correct way to read and study the Bible. The Bible must be read in context. If you read the whole chapter 1 of John, you will find that it's an account of who is Jesus which homage paid to John the Baptist as well. Specifically regarding verse 12, and most of the chapter, it's an account of what happened (past tense) when Jesus was a man on the Earth. That is in the past--Jesus is no longer physically present for these events (read the rest of the chapter) to be taking place.

Before we can jump into interpretting Scripture, study must be done to understand the context of the word in which it was written. Studying John 1 we have the background of who is Jesus, what happened with him when he was on Earth, how people received him, and the result of people who believed in him (v.12).

Understanding the context, THEN we can begin the interpretation to apply it to our lives. If v. 12 suggests that those who lived among him received and believed him meant that they became children of God, there is nothing here that suggests that is no longer true. If we receive and believe in Jesus, we too can become children of God.

 

[dcyates]

For those that are asleep and need something to do here....
I have brought a simple question and study for you that has been a doozy of a question...

12 Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God — 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

OK, Why is everything in this passage that refers to what is commonly known in the Hebrew Language as the Bene Elohim (sons of God) in the past tense here?

Is it over as this verse would suggest? Does that mean we are all fooling ourselves? What is the major malfunction of this verse? Are we here solely as cannon fodder for the wrath of God or what?

This is simply a rhetorical device employed for effect. It's not to be interpreted in a wooden, literal sense. We frequently do the same thing. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that if we paid close attention, we'd hear language used like this all the time.

 

[LamorakDesGalis]

It becomes clear when you look at the context:

1. John testified that the true light was coming into the world (John 1:6-9)
2. The world did not recognize its creator (1:10)
3. His "own" - the Jews - did not receive and welcome Him (1:11)

So when Jesus came, both the world and "His own" people rejected Him. But - not everyone rejected Him when He came. Those who did receive Him when He came have become God's children.

So if you see it in terms of John describing what has happened in Jesus' time on the earth, then it makes sense. John is certainly not saying that everyone after he wrote the Gospel has missed the boat. On the contrary, John continually witnesses to the fact that those who presently believe in Him will have eternal life (i.e. John 3:16, etc).


LDG

 

[JohnDB]

I thought of the reasons yawl have stated but they still do not account for the use of the past tense...This is the NIV here and not the King James which has the same tense here but is a little harder to understand...

 

[D.W.Washburn]

Keep in mind that John was written in Greek and you are reading it in English translation.

The Greek tense system works differently than the English. Tenses in Greek do not necessarily refer to time, but to the kind of action that a verb describes.

The verbs in John 1.12 are in the aorist tense, usually translated into English as a simple past tense, since this is the best way English can approximate it's meaning. But the aorist tense in Greek represents the action of the verb being seen as punctiliar, a single occurance, complete and whole, in and of itself.

One of the uses of the aorist tense is the "gnomic" use. That is, the aorist tense is used to indicate a universal truth. That may be the best explanation for the aorist tense in John 1.12. Though someone with a better command of the Greek may have a better idea.

 

[truth4life]

hello JohnDB,

when interpreting this passage i must remember that the Holy Spirit is inspiring the apostle to write this-and all verses of scripture. so our question is why would the Holy Spirit use past tense in this verse ?

i must first understand that God has no beginning nor ending. but you and i experience everything through what we call 'time'. so when the Holy Spirit speaks to us He is speaking to 'our experience'.

the bible tells us that we were chosen by God before the foundation ( beginning ) of the world. that means before there was a 'tick' or 'tock' we were chosen by God. you see you and i can not grasp that concept because it is outside of the parameters of time in which we experience our existence. so God expresses this verse in terms that we can grasp ( past tense ). to God everything was finished before it started but to us it is happening as we go. that is why our salvation is secure!
read romans 8:28-30 its all 'past tense' to the glory of God
with love, T4L

 

[JohnDB]

Keep in mind that John was written in Greek and you are reading it in English translation.

The Greek tense system works differently than the English. Tenses in Greek do not necessarily refer to time, but to the kind of action that a verb describes.

The verbs in John 1.12 are in the aorist tense, usually translated into English as a simple past tense, since this is the best way English can approximate it's meaning. But the aorist tense in Greek represents the action of the verb being seen as punctiliar, a single occurance, complete and whole, in and of itself.

One of the uses of the aorist tense is the "gnomic" use. That is, the aorist tense is used to indicate a universal truth. That may be the best explanation for the aorist tense in John 1.12. Though someone with a better command of the Greek may have a better idea.

Now I have to admit that I am a bit of a stringer here and a ringer....

And this feller here God's Guy has actually been the closest of anyone...

Yes the verb tense is in the Perfect Aortist tense when read. It is a part of speech that does not exixt in the English language. It is a tense that means the past, present, and future tense all at the same time. It was the verse that made me pick up the language barrier thing and I have yet to find exactly how deep the rabbit hole goes. Either it was Tyndale or Wycliff that started the habit of doing this with a verb form that didn't exist in the English language and was supported ever since by all translators of the Bible.

I have found that there is much that is impossible to translate into English and the idioms of speech are also often translated out as well. Some of them are rather unique and could stand to be put back in but that is only IMAO.(in my arrogant opinion)

Greek understanding is good...it assists us with sections of scripture like the sermon on the mount and etc. But if you really wish to twist your biscuit then try Hebrew...it is a real joy to try to untangle...whew...then you go from the New Testament references to the Septuagent and you have a real mess on your hands...

Careful there God's guy...you are on the verge of a very steep cliff that I have yet to find a bottom of while I too fall...