Joel Osteen

[PastorJoey]

Joel sent a letter to all of us apologizing for his performance on Larry King. He asked everyone to forgive him. He said he knew he didn't do as well as he should and he affirmed that he believes that Jesus is the only way. I am sure Joel would do better if he got a rematch with Larry.

Thats good to know.

IMHO, I imagine Joel was just trying to find a way to exhort people rather than allow Larry trap into making a statement which Larry was sure use to make Joel look as if he were condemning most of the people on Earth.

Yeah Larry can be like that with ministers. He's an athiest, but you know God is working on him through all these ministers that have been on his show.

I am also certain that Joel has realized that he just should have told Larry what the Bible has to say on the subject and if Larry didn't like the answer, then Joel could have said, "I guess you will just have to take it up with God because it is His Word."

yep.

Considering the size of his audience, I would say that most have forgiven him and put the issue out of their mind. I'm sure God has. I am also sure that God doesn't want Joel to have to continue to suffer the reproach of men for his slip up.

I believe that God wants churches to grow large, but the large size of church could be because it is too seeker friendly. Meaning that "Christ can be different to different people", or just not emphasized enough that He is the only way, truth and life. Not saying this is what Joel does or has done, just speaking of churches in general.

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[God_Owned]

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I appreciate you Joey.

 

[lyonguard]

In Kansas and other parts of the free world, we call what Joel does exhorting, or the Ministry of Exhortation.

...and don't argue with me about it either!

Definitions of exhort on the Web: Exort

• [SIZE=-1]
• cheer: urge on or encourage especially by shouts; "The crowd cheered the demonstrating strikers"
• urge: force or impel in an indicated direction; "I urged him to finish his studies" [/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]Exort in the Greek:

Parakaleo (par-ak-al-eh'-o);
Word Origin: Greek, Verb, Strong #: 3870

1. to call to one's side, call for, summon
2. to address, speak to, (call to, call upon), which may be done in the way of exhortation, entreaty, comfort, instruction, etc.
   1. to admonish, exhort
   2. to beg, entreat, beseech
      1. to strive to appease by entreaty
   3. to console, to encourage and strengthen by consolation, to comfort
      1. to receive consolation, be comforted
   4. to encourage, strengthen
   5. exhorting and comforting and encouraging
   6. to instruct, teach

Acts 20:2 And when he had gone over those parts, and had given them much exhortation, he came into Greece,

Hebrews 3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.


[/SIZE]

That does it buster! You've done it now. I'm coming over there. I'll be there in three days. Uhm, can you give me directions?

 

[CindyisHis]

I attended Joel's church for over a year when I lived in that area and have visited several other times in recent years. He's a great guy, and so are the rest of his family. He really wants to encourage people and help them.

He is the first to admit he is not the deepest theologian out there, but he understands his calling and what he is attempting to do. Many people are becoming Christian because of his ministry.

Hi Mark! I never knew you went to his church at one time! Kewl!

He is an encourager. What a blessing to the body of Christ. Like God_Owned says

we call what Joel does exhorting, or the Ministry of Exhortation.

 

[IchoozJC]

I thought the guy who stood behind the pulpit was called a preacher? I understand that your defending his style, but does that mean he doesn't have to shepherd his flock, instead just make sure their bellies are warm when they leave?

I'm not trying to rip on him, because surely I couldn't do what he does. Just wondering if you mean that since a preacher has the gift of encouragement, that he only needs to use that one gift. Or is that enough to stand behind a pulpit and be responsible for 30,000 sheep, or however many there are.

 

[PastorJoey]

I thought the guy who stood behind the pulpit was called a preacher? I understand that your defending his style, but does that mean he doesn't have to shepherd his flock, instead just make sure their bellies are warm when they leave?

I'm not trying to rip on him, because surely I couldn't do what he does. Just wondering if you mean that since a preacher has the gift of encouragement, that he only needs to use that one gift. Or is that enough to stand behind a pulpit and be responsible for 30,000 sheep, or however many there are.

Your right, and I am not even sure that Joel would say he had the "ministry of exhortation". If he is a Pastor, and I believe he is, then he stands in the ministry office of "Pastor". A person who fits the role of "he that exhorts" may never Pastor a church or stand in any other 5 fold office. Since we know that Joel does a lot of exhorting, then I believe that rather than doing it out of the anointing provided by the ministry of the exhorter, he does it out of his anointing as a pastor, or whatever other 5 fold office he may be functioning in at the time.

2Ti 3:16 KJV
(16) All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

In my understanding, a Pastors teaching should be a balance of all these qualities.

Reproof (rebuke) and correction can easily be neglected if you get concerned about the big tithers or attendance numbers.

 

[God_Owned]

That does it buster! You've done it now. I'm coming over there. I'll be there in three days. Uhm, can you give me directions?

I better make usre my passport is in order. It is so hard to flee woithout it.

 

[God_Owned]

I thought the guy who stood behind the pulpit was called a preacher? I understand that your defending his style, but does that mean he doesn't have to shepherd his flock, instead just make sure their bellies are warm when they leave?

I'm not trying to rip on him, because surely I couldn't do what he does. Just wondering if you mean that since a preacher has the gift of encouragement, that he only needs to use that one gift. Or is that enough to stand behind a pulpit and be responsible for 30,000 sheep, or however many there are.

Just like his daddy, I understadnd that all of ihis flock is Pastored very well.

 

[IchoozJC]

Just like his daddy, I understadnd that all of ihis flock is Pastored very well.

Do you care to share why you think this? I mean, I totally agree that there must be something within the church that is drawing people to it. People won't continue to attend a church where they are not being filled in some manner.

My question is: is Mr. Olsteen only passing out desert every week to keep them coming back, or is he serving them equally from all food groups?

I think, if Jesus went around only loving on everyone, telling them how wonderful they were and how much God loved them, and didn't pierce their hearts with biblical reproof and correction, do you think that the Pharasees would have followed Him? I do. Then we wouldn't have an atonement. Just my thoughts.

 

[God_Owned]

Do you care to share why you think this? I mean, I totally agree that there must be something within the church that is drawing people to it. People won't continue to attend a church where they are not being filled in some manner.

My question is: is Mr. Olsteen only passing out desert every week to keep them coming back, or is he serving them equally from all food groups?

I think, if Jesus went around only loving on everyone, telling them how wonderful they were and how much God loved them, and didn't pierce their hearts with biblical reproof and correction, do you think that the Pharasees would have followed Him? I do. Then we wouldn't have an atonement. Just my thoughts.

Addressing my earlier comment, I don't go to Church there. I understand the they have a huge network of home groups and numerous pastors who minister to the people. Also Joel makes himself available to people as well.
I don't know of any Pastor who operates exactly as Jesus did or even as Paul did, which is not to say that many Pastors aren't effective operating in their respective gifts and talents.

 

[LeadWorship]

I ask this because you say no one is leading the Church like Jesus or Paul, so therefor I assume your saying that we throw out leadership standards.

No, what he said was:

I don't know of any Pastor who operates exactly as Jesus did or even as Paul did, which is not to say that many Pastors aren't effective operating in their respective gifts and talents.

 

[IchoozJC]

No, what he said was:

I don't know of any Pastor who operates exactly as Jesus did or even as Paul did, which is not to say that many Pastors aren't effective operating in their respective gifts and talents.

I'm fully aware of what he said, thanks though

 

[LeadWorship]

Well, you took what he said and assumed something contradictary. Jesus and Paul were apostles. Jesus taught the government of God and gave us an example to follow, and Paul went about establishing churches. Pastors stay put in one church - even Apostolic Pastors do. However to say they throw out leadership standards because they aren't an apostle isn't really a valid assumption. You are comparing 2 different offices of ministry.

 

[Always in His Presence]

What you see on television is hardly a complete picture of anyones ministry. It seems you are taking the 22min or so that you see on television and assuming somethings about the entire ministry that are most likey not correct.

Many pastors praise and edify in public and correct and rebuke in private.

Additionally it is not scriptural for the preacher to "pierce their hearts" - that's the Holy Spirit's job.

Last time I looked:

Romans 2:3 And do you think this, O man, you who judge those practicing such things, and doing the same, that you will escape the judgment of God? 4 Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance? 5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,

 

[LeadWorship]

And he is making the argument that no preacher today is perfect in their ministry, therefore we should assume that Joel is free to lead his church in anyway he wants.

You are pulling this out of a hat somewhere. How can you draw those conclusions "Joel is free to lead his church anyway he wants" because he is not "perfect in his ministry". No human is perfect in the ministry God has placed them. That doesn't mean they are doing things their way. You are stretching things quite far to fit what you are trying to accomplish here, whatever that is. But alas, I'll let the others here have a go. Later.

 

[CindyisHis]

Many pastors praise and edify in public and correct and rebuke in private.

This is wisdom.

And I agree, no one can tell by 22 min. alone what it is like to be a member of that church. I think what is aired on TV is very good. There are many hurting people who would watch a short TV broadcast, yet not go to church. At least they are hearing the Word and challenged to get up and do something about it. I also love the fact that he never closes without praying a prayer of salvation with those who want to come to the Lord. It seems the purpose of His TV broadcast would be different than that of pastoring his church. He is not the pastor of the viewers.

 

[CindyisHis]

Have the rules changed, or is there still no debating on this thread if you do not have the Word of Faith icon?

 

[PastorJoey]

So a pastor can lead His sheep anyway he wants, as long as his church is big, and everything else is being taken care of by small groups? Are Mr. Olsteens talents just smiling pretty and making others feel good?

I ask this because you say no one is leading the Church like Jesus or Paul, so therefor I assume your saying that we throw out leadership standards.

He actually said that he know of no one who pastors "exactly" like Jesus did. Do you know a Pastor like this? I dont. I know "excellent" Pastors, but that only means that they are on their way, not that they have arrived. Im just trying to keep this in perspective.

 

[Always in His Presence]

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[IchoozJC]

I do apologize for debating when I wasn't allowed to debate. It's simple ignorance on my part. I haven't been on these boards for quite some time, and should have taken the time to review the rules. I failed to realize that I had to first agree with you in order to disagree Anyways, I hope you see in my post that I didn't mean any harshness towards Joel. Like I said, he is doing more than I could, I simply gave my opinion on what I feel about his ministry. My wife loves Joel, and I too have enjoyed some of his teaching. She also loves my impersonation of him... "God luuuvs youuuu!!" Much peace to all of you!!