Joel Osteen opens up about homosexuality

[Messy]

The rest is all in our heads. We can talk ourselves into being attracted to anything. Another man, a cow, a fence post. None of that is natural. I am sorry if that offends, but truth often does.

Let them do what they may.

No let them not do what they may, let's pray and try to think like them and love them before giving abomination texts. Pfiew am I glad I'm not attracted to women anymore since someone threw a demon out, otherwise I would indeed have been very offended by the speech.
You even call yourself a heterosexual. Why would you call yourself a heterosexual? Most of eternity we won't be that, it's an earthly thing, who cares? So can you imagine they think they ARE homosexual? It's just demonic or physical or hormonal, whatever, not who you are. So if we say: We love you, but we hate the sin it sounds to them like: We totally reject you for who you are. Gay people want love, that guy got healed since a heterosexual guy hugged him. One gay man said it's easier to get sex on the street than a hug in church.

 

[mrhappy3]

My eldest son claims to be 'gay' my other two kids claim to be 'born again' in fact I know they are. My eldest son has a soft heart, a gentle giant. He has tried to dispute the bible - maybe to justify his stance. Is that hormonal/physical, demonic, a life choice....he just feels more secure around men. His Mother has no time for it, I on the other hand prefer the Lords approach. Love the sinner hate the sin. NOT that he has SINNED yet. He just has tendencies. Same as my neighbour who likes to sleep around. Who is in danger more so..my son or my neighbour........well if it comes to catching something...my neighbour is. Jesus said Go and sin no more lest a WORSE thing come upon you. I love them both in any case. Jesus was full of grace and truth. I tell them both, IF you get involved with SIN your get bitten.

 

[lismore]

I believe there are several mistakes the church can make as regards homosexuality.

We can pretend the issue does not exist, as this preacher seems to have done. he will keep his membership in the short term, but in the long term he has exchanged vessels of precious metal for base metal. The same can be said for the church leaders like Rob Bell who encourage same sex marriage.

Another mistake is when we condemn others, through self-righteous motives, which helps no-one.

The right way is to speak the truth in love and show God's compassion and mercy towards the person, without compromising the truth.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

I had a dear friend in the 80s that died of AIDS, contracted most likely from his sexual practices which he did not hide. He lived right next door to us and I worked with him every day. We even rode bikes to work every day. I saw him more than I saw my wife. We attended a local holiness church. We never condemned him or even broached the subject. If he did not bring it up it was never discussed. He heard what he had to hear from the preacher and he was fully aware of what the word said. He repented on his death bed.
I sometimes wonder if he would be alive today if perhaps we displayed our love to him in a less "tolerant" way such as a tough love intervention. I suspect we enabled him in a way by not confronting his practice. As a true friend I should have addressed it with him. He is dead now and I was greatly grieved by the loss. If he had not repented where would he be? I suspect being nice to him would have had him in hell. Not nice to say but true. I am all for loving sinners, but this not only killed him but it would have damned him as well. We later found out that his brother (a Sunday school teacher in the same holiness church) had the same tendencies and had sodomized children in his class (4 year olds boys) . It virtually destroyed that church because most of the congregation knew what their "tendencies" were and did nothing. I supposed we were "loving them." I wonder if it is truly "love" or is it just a fear of confrontation. There is a reason that Lev speaks of sodomy, bestiality, incest, and child sacrifice in the tone and calls them all abominations. There is more to it than just the individuals salvation. It affects other people as well as the nation as a whole. If you saw a person about to drive a bus full of people off a cliff, would you say "oh, we will just love him..."

Perhaps it requires a little more thought than just saying "we need to love them."

 

[Andrea411]

I had a dear friend in the 80s that died of AIDS, contracted most likely from his sexual practices which he did not hide. He lived right next door to us and I worked with him every day. We even rode bikes to work every day. I saw him more than I saw my wife. We attended a local holiness church. We never condemned him or even broached the subject. If he did not bring it up it was never discussed. He heard what he had to hear from the preacher and he was fully aware of what the word said. He repented on his death bed.
I sometimes wonder if he would be alive today if perhaps we displayed our love to him in a less "tolerant" way such as a tough love intervention. I suspect we enabled him in a way by not confronting his practice. As a true friend I should have addressed it with him. He is dead now and I was greatly grieved by the loss. If he had not repented where would he be? I suspect being nice to him would have had him in hell. Not nice to say but true. I am all for loving sinners, but this not only killed him but it would have damned him as well. We later found out that his brother (a Sunday school teacher in the same holiness church) had the same tendencies and had sodomized children in his class (4 year olds boys) . It virtually destroyed that church because most of the congregation knew what their "tendencies" were and did nothing. I supposed we were "loving them." I wonder if it is truly "love" or is it just a fear of confrontation. There is a reason that Lev speaks of sodomy, bestiality, incest, and child sacrifice in the tone and calls them all abominations. There is more to it than just the individuals salvation. It affects other people as well as the nation as a whole. If you saw a person about to drive a bus full of people off a cliff, would you say "oh, we will just love him..."

Perhaps it requires a little more thought than just saying "we need to love them."

I'm sorry but I have 2 brothers (had 2 , one has since died of AIDS) who are gay and a sister... many of us here have loved ones who we have struggled over this issue about... please don't insult us with "you need more thought than, oh you just have to love them".... ugh. It is a horrible issue for which the church has historically had a horrible response!!! Joel and others are trying to mend what has been broken... the message of the gospel to SINNERS who were written off by an uncaring church centuries ago.
Don't act like you understand bc you once had a neighbor who you TOLERATED!! You were too tolerant bc somehow you don't think he knew everyone there thought he was a sinner!!! ugh
Of course they know they are sinners, the question is DO WE ???
I struggle and weep for a sister who walks out of the room at the mention of Jesus yet she believes in God... but we can not discuss it bc the church has called her a reprobate and unworthy

I would love her to hear Joel Osteen... his grace for them is seen in his attitude, no his theology may bc off but so is all of ours. God doesn't give us everything bc of what terrible things we do to others when we get what He has given us...

 

[mrhappy3]

http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/apologetics/homosex.shtml

this seems a very good paper on the subject.

He reckons a non practising 'one' is doomed also, mmmm...he said its down to the thought patterns and motive, like when Jesus said we are adulterers in our heart.....mmm where does that leave us then.mmm.

 

[geetrue]

I'm not replying to your Mr Happy only to the link you posted, okay.

How can imperfect be perfect?

Only by the blood of Jesus Christ and the fact that he paid for all the sins you repented of plus you confess that the Father God sent his son and sacrificed His son and rose him to everlasting life on resurrection day.

Where does it say if you desire bacon bits on your baked potato, but you never put them there due to the laws of Moses and that this is your version of abiding in Him?

That this small sin of desire would keep you out of heaven?

Now that is taking the law into account of this scenario, add saved by grace and all of his reasoning's go by the wayside.

No, I don't thinks so of course we are saved separate from the law by grace and we keep that faith, but to say they still want to, but they don't is going to keep them out of heaven is taking Gods' forgiveness into your own hands.

 

[mrhappy3]

I agree with the last bit you posted. We all want to do things - but we don't follow through - and even if we did - does not make it a lifestyle sin does it ?!

 

[ToBeBlessed]

Off the bat - homosexuality is a sin - ONLY if it is practised. The tendency is like all other other sins a thought - that need to be actioned, and when thus conceived, bingo.

That is not true.

The Word says that if you (or any man/woman) has desired to sleep/be intimate with someone in their mind that they have already committed the sin of adultery.

With that said, I'm not sure why homosexuality is considered a worse sin than heterosexual thoughts.

We know that all sin is sin. One sin makes a person as unworthy of heaven as 100.

We, humans, decided to put a sin-o-meter into action.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Like I say before, there is no such thing as "homosexuals" or "gays."
These are not terms the Word uses. These are terms invented so that those who practice sodomy can be considered a "group" that deserves special "rights" and be deemed legitimate in the arena of political correctness. These are just people who engage in a specific sin and want it to be legitimized and have it forced into law as a right.
What if pedophiles insist on similar treatment?
How about the incestites and the fornicatites?
How about murderites?
Should we tolerate these also? If they insist that we accept them as legitimate in our society, should we do so? Should we welcome them into our churches, set them up as worship leaders and Sunday school teachers?
Why bother speaking out against any sin? Just accept them all, let them all into the church with welcome arms.
There is a reason Paul said not to eat with rank sinners. It sends a message, first of all that what they are doing is in fact not tolerated and will not be accepted, and second this is how God is viewing them. They are lost and they are in fact going to hell if they do not repent. Those are just the facts. You can "lovingly" embrace them and not offend them if you want. You can wave at them as they are cast into the lake of fire and tell them how much you loved them. They will still be in the lake, and they will likely be cursing you for not pressing home the issue with them.
Hate me and call me all kind of names if you like. I see Jesus on the cross shedding His blood to save me. I am not going to step all over that blood. If those folks go to hell, you will not see me taking the blame, nor will I be guilty of the lords blood by legitimizing the sins He shed it for.

 

[ToBeBlessed]

Like I say before, there is no such thing as "homosexuals" or "gays."
These are not terms the Word uses. These are terms invented so that those who practice sodomy can be considered a "group" that deserves special "rights" and be deemed legitimate in the arena of political correctness. These are just people who engage in a specific sin and want it to be legitimized and have it forced into law as a right.
What if pedophiles insist on similar treatment?
How about the incestites and the fornicatites?
How about murderites?
Should we tolerate these also? If they insist that we accept them as legitimate in our society, should we do so? Should we welcome them into our churches, set them up as worship leaders and Sunday school teachers?
Why bother speaking out against any sin? Just accept them all, let them all into the church with welcome arms.
There is a reason Paul said not to eat with rank sinners. It sends a message, first of all that what they are doing is in fact not tolerated and will not be accepted, and second this is how God is viewing them. They are lost and they are in fact going to hell if they do not repent. Those are just the facts. You can "lovingly" embrace them and not offend them if you want. You can wave at them as they are cast into the lake of fire and tell them how much you loved them. They will still be in the lake, and they will likely be cursing you for not pressing home the issue with them.
Hate me and call me all kind of names if you like. I see Jesus on the cross shedding His blood to save me. I am not going to step all over that blood. If those folks go to hell, you will not see me taking the blame, nor will I be guilty of the lords blood by legitimizing the sins He shed it for.

Is the sin of homosexuality enough to keep someone out of heaven? If they are saved, will being a homosexual send them to hell? Just curious why you think Christ's blood is good enough to save you and murderers, yet not homosexuals? Is it not you who is limiting who Jesus Christ, God can save?

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Is the sin of homosexuality enough to keep someone out of heaven? If they are saved, will being a homosexual send them to hell? Just curious why you think Christ's blood is good enough to save you and murderers, yet not homosexuals? Is it not you who is limiting who Jesus Christ, God can save?

I assume the murderers are not continuing their murdering ways...
There is no such thing as the "sin of homosexuality." The sin is sodomy which means the act of having sex with another male. Homosexual is not another gender or some sin nature that you cannot escape from. If a person who repents from sodomy is no longer a sodomite (one who commits sodomy) then that sin is no longer a part of them.
The big error here is thinking that there is a thing called "homosexual" that is equivalent to being "straight." This is not so. There is no such thing as a "homosexual." That is an invented term that people have created in order to justify their sin. If someone claiming to be a "homosexual" comes to me and says "I am a homosexual" I reply, "No, you are not. You are just a normal person like everyone else who is committing sodomy."
There is no such thing as a "homosexual" except in the minds of those who want to justify what they are doing. Just like there is no such thing as a "murderite" or a "fornicatite."

 

[Messy]

I had a dear friend in the 80s that died of AIDS, contracted most likely from his sexual practices which he did not hide. He lived right next door to us and I worked with him every day. We even rode bikes to work every day. I saw him more than I saw my wife. We attended a local holiness church. We never condemned him or even broached the subject. If he did not bring it up it was never discussed. He heard what he had to hear from the preacher and he was fully aware of what the word said. He repented on his death bed.

Praise God. I heard Rock Hudson did too.

 

[Messy]

Like I say before, there is no such thing as "homosexuals" or "gays."
These are not terms the Word uses.

2 Timothy 3 without natural affection, they say it's their nature, I believe that, it's just the sin nature that can be attracted to people of the other sex you're not married to or of the same sex. Luckily the sin nature died with Christ, so I want to show them that my sin nature really died, if we can't show that, why would they think their sin nature is dead, especially when it's not taught in their church. With the sexual revolution there also was a move of God, so why not with this homosexual revolution we have now?

 

[SavedByGrace3]

2 Timothy 3 without natural affection, they say it's their nature, I believe that, it's just the sin nature that can be attracted to people of the other sex you're not married to or of the same sex. Luckily the sin nature died with Christ, so I want to show them that my sin nature really died, if we can't show that, why would they think their sin nature is dead, especially when it's not taught in their church. With the sexual revolution there also was a move of God, so why not with this homosexual revolution we have now?

I agree that the sin nature died when we are born again.
Yet we still have a mind and a body which will naturally want to do things that may be unnatural. This is why we renew our minds according to that new spiritual nature and crucify our flesh.
You are correct, the first step is to be born again which gets ride of that old demonic nature. Then we can take care of the rest with the power of the spirit.
Praise God!

 

[Andrea411]

We must admit that we actually don't know. Does a former murderer still think about killing someone. Yet Christ said, to be angry at your brother was 'as' the sin of murder. Meaning that we are all in a state of reprobate... we are all sinners. I have not seen anyone here saying homosexuality was not sin or was not condemned in the scriptures.
What i ask is what does is mean to be saved. If a gay person receives Christ yet still struggles with their sin, why is that different than most men who struggle with lust. Especially in our society where 'sex' sells everything?
My point is that the LGBT community has the same opportunity to KNOW Christ as anyone else. The churches emphasis on gay marriage has made this a huge focus and a political football... satan must love the message of Christ being mixed with our politics... who get the glory for that??

The issue of gay marriage in our secular society is another issue and should be separated from how we minister to the LGBT community. Joel O. is trying to accomplish that and he is doing a better job than most.
The people who stand back and scream abomination, fornicators or reprobates have those same judgments being spoken to them... for "HOW" you judge is how you will be judged. So minister life to these people. Life doesn't mean we dismiss sin, it means we don't dismiss and condemn the sinner.

God bless, andrea

 

[Messy]

What i ask is what does is mean to be saved. If a gay person receives Christ yet still struggles with their sin, why is that different than most men who struggle with lust. Especially in our society where 'sex' sells everything?

It's not different. The difference is that they, at least here in Holland, just marry and really believe God is okay with it.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

The people who stand back and scream abomination, fornicators or reprobates have those same judgments being spoken to them... for "HOW" you judge is how you will be judged. So minister life to these people. Life doesn't mean we dismiss sin, it means we don't dismiss and condemn the sinner.

God bless, andrea

Well I do not know who is screaming.. they should cool down.
A person who has repented of sodomy is no longer a sodomite. Just like anyone who has repented from murdering is no longer a murderer.
If I struggle with murdering and go out an murder someone, I am, once again, a murdered. If a sodomite (one who practices sodomy) goes out and continues to practice sodomy, then he once again becomes a sodomite. Those are just the words. Nobody is "judging" anyone. It is just an observation. If you murder then you are a murder. If you sodomize, then you are a sodomite.
I am not sure what we are being asked here. To make pretend???

 

[NorrinRadd]

I assume the murderers are not continuing their murdering ways...

What about anger? Does anger get us snipped out of the Vine and excluded from Heaven?

 

[SavedByGrace3]

What about anger? Does anger get us snipped out of the Vine and excluded from Heaven?

Matthew 5:19-22 KJV
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.