Jn. 3:13

[Achilles6129]

Here's the passage:

"13 No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man." Jn. 3:13 (NASB)

Does this passage mean that Christ had ascended into heaven in his earthly life, prior to making this statement?

 

[miamited]

Hi achilles,

No.

God bless you
In Christ, Ted

 

[Achilles6129]

Hi achilles,

No.

God bless you
In Christ, Ted

OK - can you explain why the passage is worded the way it's worded, then?

 

[NJA]

Here's the passage:

"13 No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man." Jn. 3:13 (NASB)

Does this passage mean that Christ had ascended into heaven in his earthly life, prior to making this statement?

He had not yet bodily ascended from the dead, for he had not yet died but spiritually his soul was ascended to heaven in the same sense as ours are/can be when we are born again.

"Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved )
And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus" (Eph. 2:5-6)

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

from biblegateway simplicity and clarity >
AMP
No one has gone up into heaven, but there is One who came down from heaven, the Son of Man [Himself—whose home is in heaven].
AMPC
And yet no one has ever gone up to heaven, but there is One Who has come down from heaven—the Son of Man [Himself], Who is (dwells, has His home) in heaven.
BRG
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
CEB
No one has gone up to heaven except the one who came down from heaven, the Human One.
CJB
No one has gone up into heaven; there is only the one who has come down from heaven, the Son of Man.

PHILLIPS
“So you are a teacher of Israel,” said Jesus, “and you do not recognise such things? I assure you that we are talking about something we really know and we are witnessing to something we have actually observed, yet men like you will not accept our evidence. Yet if I have spoken to you about things which happen on this earth and you will not believe me, what chance is there that you will believe me if I tell you about what happens in Heaven? No one has ever been up to Heaven except the Son of Man who came down from Heaven. The Son of Man must be lifted above the heads of men—as Moses lifted up that serpent in the desert—so that any man who believes in him may have eternal life. For God loved the world so much that he gave his only Son, so that every one who believes in him shall not be lost, but should have eternal life. You must understand that God has not sent his Son into the world to pass sentence upon it, but to save it—through him. Any man who believes in him is not judged at all. It is the one who will not believe who stands already condemned, because he will not believe in the character of God’s only Son. This is the judgment—that light has entered the world and men have preferred darkness to light because their deeds are evil. Anybody who does wrong hates the light and keeps away from it, for fear his deeds may be exposed. But anybody who is living by the truth will come to the light to make it plain that all he has done has been done through God.”

 

[miamited]

Hi achilles,

This is actually one of the verses that causes me to understand that when we die, we do not immediately find ourselves transported to heaven. The verb tense does make it a bit tricky, and that's usually the work of the translator, but I believe Jesus is merely confirming that no one has gone to heaven yet.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

 

[Greg J.]

Before Jesus was begotten as a human child, he was in heaven. So he had to "descend" to be born human.

I also speculate that the Father participated in raising him to adulthood, because without sin, there would have been no hindrance in his relationship with the Father. Since God gives visions to humans that have a sinful nature, it is easy to believe God showed Him who He was in heaven (God the Son). It may be that he was taken up to heaven in spirit as part of the Father maturing him and granting him faith in who he (Jesus) was and who the Father was (perhaps many times). See 2 Corinthians 12:2.

 

[Achilles6129]

He had not yet bodily ascended from the dead, for he had not yet died but spiritually his soul was ascended to heaven in the same sense as ours are/can be when we are born again.

"Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved )
And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus" (Eph. 2:5-6)

Interesting reply. The verb tense does make it sound like he had ascended to heaven before he made the statement.

 

[Achilles6129]

Here's another interesting passage which may have something to do with Jn. 3:13:

"25 See to it that you do not refuse Him who is speaking. For if those did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, much less will we escape who turn away from Him who warns from heaven." Heb. 12:25 (NASB)

Is this passage saying that Christ's ministry was God speaking from heaven in the sense that Christ came down from heaven to speak? Or that God in heaven was directly speaking through Christ on earth?

 

[miamited]

Here's another interesting passage which may have something to do with Jn. 3:13:

"25 See to it that you do not refuse Him who is speaking. For if those did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, much less will we escape who turn away from Him who warns from heaven." Heb. 12:25 (NASB)

Is this passage saying that Christ's ministry was God speaking from heaven in the sense that Christ came down from heaven to speak? Or that God in heaven was directly speaking through Christ on earth?

Hi achilles,

I think Jesus made that clear when he also said that the words he spoke were not his own but what the Father told him to say. John 12:49

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

 

[Achilles6129]

Interesting reply, Ted.

 

[Achilles6129]

Here's another passage that I thought of:

" 62 What then if you see the Son of Man ascending to where He was before?" Jn. 6:62 (NASB)

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

John 6
PHILLIPS
Then Jesus, knowing intuitively that his disciples were complaining about what he had just said*, went on,

“Is this too much for you?

Then what would happen if you were to see the Son of Man going up to the place where he was before?

It is the Spirit which gives life.

The flesh will not help you. The things which I have told you are spiritual and are life. But some of you will not believe me.”

For Jesus knew from the beginning which of his followers did not trust him and who was the man who would betray him. Then he added, “This is why I said to you, ‘No one can come to me unless my Father puts it into his heart to come.’”


------------- * what Jesus had just said, that His disciples argued about , misunderstood grossly by 2 billion today who are still every day deceived on purpose
>>
I myself am the living bread which came down from Heaven,

and if anyone eats this bread he will live for ever. The bread which I will give is my body and I shall give it for the life of the world.”

52 This led to a fierce argument among the Jews, some of them saying, “How can this man give us his body to eat?”

53-58 So Jesus said to them, “Unless you do eat the body of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you are not really living at all. The man who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life and I will raise him up when the last day comes. For my body is real** food and my blood is real** drink. The man who eats** my body and drinks** my blood shares my life and I share his.
----------------------------------------
** "REAL" = "SPIRIT" as Jesus said plainly (and His disciples argued about, and many still left Him for this reason.
Jesus could NEVER violate Torah IF HE WAS/ SINCE HE IS MESSIAH.
HE NEVER advocated violating Torah , especially not by drinking physical blood, ever, no, never.